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Southwark - PCN Contravention 12
grant_413
post Mon, 11 Feb 2019 - 14:55
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Hi all,

Southwark - Union Street.


I received a parking charge notice on Saturday night @ 21:28, first spotted @ 21:22. It was a genuine mistake as I could not see any parking signs at all.

Parking contravention 12: Parking in a residents' or shared use parking place or zone without either clearly displaying a valid permit or voucher or pay and display ticket issued for that place, or without payment of the parking charge.

The next day I looked on google street view and there is 1 tiny sign at the end of the bay attached to a 20 mph sign. Which I could argue is not very clear at all.


Please find attached photographs of my vehicle (Volvo) supplied by CEO and screenshot of the street I parked on.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Also read a bit about 0845?


Ticket:
https://ibb.co/qJzLN1W
https://ibb.co/VVW573B
https://ibb.co/vL04GYL

Car CEO pictures:
https://ibb.co/ZdYwm28
https://ibb.co/wJyhdHg

Sign CEO pictures:
https://ibb.co/BsRsP2M
https://ibb.co/NnGwpSH



Google Street View
https://goo.gl/maps/RyviuK7NTGA2 - (Parked on the right further down)

This post has been edited by grant_413: Mon, 11 Feb 2019 - 18:32
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post Mon, 11 Feb 2019 - 14:55
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stamfordman
post Mon, 11 Feb 2019 - 14:57
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Put pics on https://imgbb.com or such like as can't read them.

Post council's pics if not got yet.

post google street view link
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grant_413
post Mon, 11 Feb 2019 - 15:07
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QUOTE (stamfordman @ Mon, 11 Feb 2019 - 14:57) *
Put pics on https://imgbb.com or such like as can't read them.

Post council's pics if not got yet.

post google street view link



Done I think! Thank you!
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cp8759
post Mon, 11 Feb 2019 - 15:35
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We need a higher res version of the PCN, it's too small to read. Also we need a link to google street view, not a screenshot.


--------------------
I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
No, I am not a lawyer.
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grant_413
post Mon, 11 Feb 2019 - 18:33
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QUOTE (cp8759 @ Mon, 11 Feb 2019 - 15:35) *
We need a higher res version of the PCN, it's too small to read. Also we need a link to google street view, not a screenshot.



Sorted, thank you for your help!
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cp8759
post Mon, 11 Feb 2019 - 23:25
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See what others say but I can't see any obvious grounds to challenge this. Did you not look for signs?


--------------------
I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
No, I am not a lawyer.
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grant_413
post Tue, 12 Feb 2019 - 11:07
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QUOTE (cp8759 @ Mon, 11 Feb 2019 - 23:25) *
See what others say but I can't see any obvious grounds to challenge this. Did you not look for signs?


Yeah I looked for signs, I was parked further down the street and missed the only one which is at the other end attached to a 20mph sign. Completely missed it.
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cp8759
post Tue, 12 Feb 2019 - 11:39
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How far down were you parked? If you were at the very end of the bay, as seen from here https://www.google.com/maps/@51.5038564,-0....3312!8i6656, you can argue the signage was not visible.

It's been ruled that while motorists must look for signs, they are not required to traipse up and down the road looking for signs. Which way did you walk off towards after you parked?


--------------------
I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
No, I am not a lawyer.
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grant_413
post Tue, 12 Feb 2019 - 12:14
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QUOTE (cp8759 @ Tue, 12 Feb 2019 - 11:39) *
How far down were you parked? If you were at the very end of the bay, as seen from here https://www.google.com/maps/@51.5038564,-0....3312!8i6656, you can argue the signage was not visible.

It's been ruled that while motorists must look for signs, they are not required to traipse up and down the road looking for signs. Which way did you walk off towards after you parked?


I was parked about 3/4 of the way down, and actually walked towards the sign and passed it. I saw the 20 mph sign but because the parking permit sign is so small and directly below it, I missed it.
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cp8759
post Tue, 12 Feb 2019 - 13:04
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Well it's not clear cut but the Traffic Signs Manual, though not legally binding, does provide a useful guide, see page 69 https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/go...-chapter-03.pdf

7.50 Signs should be provided at approximately 30m
intervals, i.e. half the distance recommended for signs
indicating a prohibition of waiting (see para 6.34).
As white bay markings denote a place where a
driver might be able to park, information about
the permitted parking is required at more frequent
intervals, particularly where the bay marking does not
have any legend to indicate the type of user. The first
sign should be no more than 15 m from the end of
the bay. Where the length of the bay is less than
30 m, a sign mounted at the mid-point should
therefore be sufficient (but see para 7.51).


I've measured the distance and it appears the far end of the bay is some 32 metres from the sign, so well over the 15 m guideline from the end of the bay.


--------------------
I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
No, I am not a lawyer.
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