PePiPoo Helping the motorist get justice Support health workers

Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

Speedwatch intimidation - taking down everyone's registration
Daytona2
post Thu, 1 Aug 2019 - 16:54
Post #1


New Member


Group: Members
Posts: 1
Joined: 1 Aug 2019
Member No.: 105,050



I've had my number taken twice today by the same bunch of Speedwatch people wearing police marked flourescent jackets when travelling below the speed limit. It's happened before in a different area as well. It didn't used to happen.

I'm wondering what rules the police have to adhere to about intimidation. I don't take kindly to having my details noted by police/police affiliated people in this circumstance. Isn't there some general concept about law abiding people being free to go about there lawful business without intimidation ?

I also wonder whether this is allowed under the data protection rules.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
2 Pages V   1 2 >  
Start new topic
Replies (1 - 19)
Advertisement
post Thu, 1 Aug 2019 - 16:54
Post #


Advertise here!









Go to the top of the page
 
Quote Post
The Slithy Tove
post Thu, 1 Aug 2019 - 16:57
Post #2


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 3,283
Joined: 5 Jan 2012
Member No.: 52,178



Anyone can stand on a street corner and write down registration numbers. How is writing down a number "intimidating"? Effectively they're just like train spotters.

Don't forget, your registration is (electronically) written down all over the place these days with the number of ANPR cameras about. It's only a problem if the information collected is abused.

This post has been edited by The Slithy Tove: Thu, 1 Aug 2019 - 16:58
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
cp8759
post Thu, 1 Aug 2019 - 23:33
Post #3


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 38,006
Joined: 3 Dec 2010
Member No.: 42,618



QUOTE (The Slithy Tove @ Thu, 1 Aug 2019 - 17:57) *
Anyone can stand on a street corner and write down registration numbers. How is writing down a number "intimidating"? Effectively they're just like train spotters.

Don't forget, your registration is (electronically) written down all over the place these days with the number of ANPR cameras about. It's only a problem if the information collected is abused.

If the speedwatch scheme is sanctioned by the police, there's DPA implications. What legitimate policing purpose is served by taking down number plates in this way?


--------------------
If you would like assistance with a penalty charge notice, please post a thread on https://www.ftla.uk/index.php
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
The Slithy Tove
post Fri, 2 Aug 2019 - 07:47
Post #4


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 3,283
Joined: 5 Jan 2012
Member No.: 52,178



QUOTE (cp8759 @ Fri, 2 Aug 2019 - 00:33) *
If the speedwatch scheme is sanctioned by the police, there's DPA implications. What legitimate policing purpose is served by taking down number plates in this way?

Probably get the same lame excuse as you would if you challenged them about their keeping your details every time you pass one the national network of ANPR cameras.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Mat_Shamus
post Fri, 2 Aug 2019 - 09:24
Post #5


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 502
Joined: 11 May 2014
From: Scotland.
Member No.: 70,553



QUOTE (cp8759 @ Fri, 2 Aug 2019 - 00:33) *
If the speedwatch scheme is sanctioned by the police, there's DPA implications. What legitimate policing purpose is served by taking down number plates in this way?


What are the DPA implications specifically and what impact would they have on you?


--------------------
Patience is something you admire in the driver behind you, but not in one ahead.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Redivi
post Fri, 2 Aug 2019 - 09:34
Post #6


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 4,126
Joined: 31 Jan 2018
Member No.: 96,238



Isn't data processing in connection with legal proceedings an exemption to the DPA ?

In this situation I would be draw their attention to my dashcam and keep the recording safe

As a thought, is it possible that they're also performing a survey and not recording the registrations but general details about vehicle type and speed ?



Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
The Rookie
post Fri, 2 Aug 2019 - 09:42
Post #7


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 56,198
Joined: 9 Sep 2003
From: Warwickshire
Member No.: 317



QUOTE (Redivi @ Fri, 2 Aug 2019 - 10:34) *
Isn't data processing in connection with legal proceedings an exemption to the DPA ?

Do speedwatch records ever result in legal proceedings?


--------------------
There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
Rookies 1-0 Kent

Council PCN's
Rookies 1-0 Warwick
Rookies 1-0 Birmingham

PPC PCN's
Rookies 10-0 PPC's
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
TryOut
post Fri, 2 Aug 2019 - 09:47
Post #8


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 601
Joined: 7 May 2019
Member No.: 103,734



QUOTE (Daytona2 @ Thu, 1 Aug 2019 - 17:54) *
I've had my number taken twice today by the same bunch of Speedwatch people wearing police marked flourescent jackets when travelling below the speed limit. It's happened before in a different area as well. It didn't used to happen.

I'm wondering what rules the police have to adhere to about intimidation. I don't take kindly to having my details noted by police/police affiliated people in this circumstance. Isn't there some general concept about law abiding people being free to go about there lawful business without intimidation ?

I also wonder whether this is allowed under the data protection rules.

What protection are you expecting for a registration number that is clearly visible on the front and rear of your vehicle?

How do you know the registration number was taken? Maybe they simply added some details, not necessarily your registration number, to a traffic survey.

Even if the registration and the date and time of the incident was recorded and passed to police and the police subsequently looked up your details and plotted it, as long as they abide by the DPA and surveillance regulations, they don't prevent you having your details taken if the police have a reason to do so and observe the protection of that data once it is captured.

The regulations are Data Protection, not Data Prevention.

QUOTE (The Rookie @ Fri, 2 Aug 2019 - 10:42) *
QUOTE (Redivi @ Fri, 2 Aug 2019 - 10:34) *
Isn't data processing in connection with legal proceedings an exemption to the DPA ?

Do speedwatch records ever result in legal proceedings?

Why couldn't they?
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
The Rookie
post Fri, 2 Aug 2019 - 09:49
Post #9


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 56,198
Joined: 9 Sep 2003
From: Warwickshire
Member No.: 317



QUOTE (TryOut @ Fri, 2 Aug 2019 - 10:47) *
QUOTE (The Rookie @ Fri, 2 Aug 2019 - 10:42) *
QUOTE (Redivi @ Fri, 2 Aug 2019 - 10:34) *
Isn't data processing in connection with legal proceedings an exemption to the DPA ?

Do speedwatch records ever result in legal proceedings?

Why couldn't they?

There are a whole raft of reasons why any proceeding may struggle to get the result the Police would want which is precisely WHY they don't result in proceedings, however that wasn't my question, it was 'do they' and the answer is no.


--------------------
There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
Rookies 1-0 Kent

Council PCN's
Rookies 1-0 Warwick
Rookies 1-0 Birmingham

PPC PCN's
Rookies 10-0 PPC's
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Fredd
post Fri, 2 Aug 2019 - 11:26
Post #10


Webmaster
Group Icon

Group: Root Admin
Posts: 8,205
Joined: 30 Mar 2003
From: Wokingham, UK
Member No.: 2



QUOTE (TryOut @ Fri, 2 Aug 2019 - 10:47) *
What protection are you expecting for a registration number that is clearly visible on the front and rear of your vehicle?

The ICO doesn't share your view that VRMs relating to individuals are fair game.


--------------------
Regards,
Fredd

__________________________________________________________________________
Pepipoo relies on you
to keep this site running!
Donate to Pepipoo now using your
Visa, Mastercard, debit card or PayPal account
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
southpaw82
post Fri, 2 Aug 2019 - 11:47
Post #11


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 33,610
Joined: 2 Apr 2008
From: Not in the UK
Member No.: 18,483



QUOTE (Fredd @ Fri, 2 Aug 2019 - 12:26) *
QUOTE (TryOut @ Fri, 2 Aug 2019 - 10:47) *
What protection are you expecting for a registration number that is clearly visible on the front and rear of your vehicle?

The ICO doesn't share your view that VRMs relating to individuals are fair game.

There’s a surprise. The authorities often seem to take the view that they can do as they like. This sometimes doesn’t work out for them.


--------------------
Moderator

Any comments made do not constitute legal advice and should not be relied upon. No lawyer/client relationship should be assumed nor should any duty of care be owed.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
TryOut
post Fri, 2 Aug 2019 - 13:08
Post #12


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 601
Joined: 7 May 2019
Member No.: 103,734



QUOTE (Fredd @ Fri, 2 Aug 2019 - 12:26) *
QUOTE (TryOut @ Fri, 2 Aug 2019 - 10:47) *
What protection are you expecting for a registration number that is clearly visible on the front and rear of your vehicle?

The ICO doesn't share your view that VRMs relating to individuals are fair game.

You missed out a key part of my post.

as long as they abide by the DPA and surveillance regulations, they don't prevent you having your details taken if the police have a reason to do so and observe the protection of that data once it is captured....
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
southpaw82
post Fri, 2 Aug 2019 - 13:12
Post #13


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 33,610
Joined: 2 Apr 2008
From: Not in the UK
Member No.: 18,483



QUOTE (TryOut @ Fri, 2 Aug 2019 - 14:08) *
QUOTE (Fredd @ Fri, 2 Aug 2019 - 12:26) *
QUOTE (TryOut @ Fri, 2 Aug 2019 - 10:47) *
What protection are you expecting for a registration number that is clearly visible on the front and rear of your vehicle?

The ICO doesn't share your view that VRMs relating to individuals are fair game.

You missed out a key part of my post.

as long as they abide by the DPA and surveillance regulations, they don't prevent you having your details taken if the police have a reason to do so and observe the protection of that data once it is captured....

So, relating your point to the OP’s question, if the speed watch people are indeed noting down every VRM, what is your view?


--------------------
Moderator

Any comments made do not constitute legal advice and should not be relied upon. No lawyer/client relationship should be assumed nor should any duty of care be owed.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
nigelbb
post Fri, 2 Aug 2019 - 13:54
Post #14


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 3,768
Joined: 17 Mar 2013
Member No.: 60,602



QUOTE (The Rookie @ Fri, 2 Aug 2019 - 10:42) *
QUOTE (Redivi @ Fri, 2 Aug 2019 - 10:34) *
Isn't data processing in connection with legal proceedings an exemption to the DPA ?

Do speedwatch records ever result in legal proceedings?

This lot in Essex are apparently going to "issue penalty charge notice letters to speeding drivers." https://www.harwichandmanningtreestandard.c...rcement-powers/


--------------------
British Parking Association Ltd Code of Practice(Appendix C contains Schedule 4 of POFA 2012 ) & can be found here http://www.britishparking.co.uk/Code-of-Pr...ance-monitoring
DfT Guidance on Section 56 and Schedule 4 of POFA 2012 https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/syste...ing-charges.pdf
Damning OFT advice on levels of parking charges that was ignored by the BPA Ltd Reference Request Number: IAT/FOIA/135010 – 12 October 2012
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
oldstoat
post Fri, 2 Aug 2019 - 15:49
Post #15


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 1,535
Joined: 16 Jan 2009
From: Up north
Member No.: 25,505




This lot in Essex are apparently going to "issue penalty charge notice letters to speeding drivers." https://www.harwichandmanningtreestandard.c...rcement-powers/

no matter the DPA implications If a member of the public sees a crime being committed are they not morally obliged to reprt said crime, with as much information as possible, to ensure that the miscreant is apprehended and then processed by the law?

Its a sorry state of affairs, when a subject of the Crown, cannot inform a sworn constable of a crime that they have witnessed and pass on all lawfully obtained evidence to the police


--------------------
Bridges burnt, Rubicons crossed. Parthian shots delivered, but always with style
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Fredd
post Fri, 2 Aug 2019 - 15:55
Post #16


Webmaster
Group Icon

Group: Root Admin
Posts: 8,205
Joined: 30 Mar 2003
From: Wokingham, UK
Member No.: 2



QUOTE (oldstoat @ Fri, 2 Aug 2019 - 16:49) *
Its a sorry state of affairs, when a subject of the Crown, cannot inform a sworn constable of a crime that they have witnessed and pass on all lawfully obtained evidence to the police

What are you smoking?


--------------------
Regards,
Fredd

__________________________________________________________________________
Pepipoo relies on you
to keep this site running!
Donate to Pepipoo now using your
Visa, Mastercard, debit card or PayPal account
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
cp8759
post Fri, 2 Aug 2019 - 16:32
Post #17


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 38,006
Joined: 3 Dec 2010
Member No.: 42,618



QUOTE (Fredd @ Fri, 2 Aug 2019 - 16:55) *
QUOTE (oldstoat @ Fri, 2 Aug 2019 - 16:49) *
Its a sorry state of affairs, when a subject of the Crown, cannot inform a sworn constable of a crime that they have witnessed and pass on all lawfully obtained evidence to the police

What are you smoking?

He can't tell us, that would be a breach of data protection


--------------------
If you would like assistance with a penalty charge notice, please post a thread on https://www.ftla.uk/index.php
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
666
post Fri, 2 Aug 2019 - 17:08
Post #18


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 3,300
Joined: 17 Jun 2011
Member No.: 47,602



Leaving aside any DPA implications for the moment, let's consider the OP's charge of "intimidation".

If I saw someone on the pavement wielding an AK47 or a machete, I might feel intimidated. But a pencil and notebook? Is this what the cliche "generation snowflake" was invented for?
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Guest_Charlie1010_*
post Fri, 2 Aug 2019 - 17:38
Post #19





Guests






‘Legislation - Human Rights and Data Protection
Community Residents should not normally
know the identity of drivers of speeding vehicles they report, it is however accepted that most Community Residents operate where they live so some recognition is inevitable.
In this event a professional approach would be expected such that driver details should not be disclosed and any personal information gathered should remain confidential.
Human Rights considerations in sending letters to registered keepers may be considered by some to be an infringement of an individual’s privacy. In the case of Community Speed Watch, the following factors would mitigate a challenge on privacy grounds:
• There is a social need
• It pursues a legitimate aim
• It is a strategy in the reduction of crime and
disorder
• It promotes and protects public safety
• It protects the rights and freedoms of other
members of the community for a safer
environment
• It is the least intrusive method
• It is proportionate to the problem
The Data Protection Act 1998 seeks to strike a balance between the rights of the individuals and the legitimate interests of those processing personal data
The Act bestows a duty on all bodies, when processing personal data to protect it from unauthorised use.
The eight principles of the Act set out the basic standards governing the processing of personal data relating to any living individual who could be identified from the data, or from any other information likely to be in the possession of the data controller. It is not the aim of the Act to prevent disclosures being made; instead it puts in place parameters within which disclosures can be made.
All Community Residents MUST be alert to the eight enforceable data principles of the Data Protection Act 1998:
• Personal data shall be processed fairly and lawfully
• Personal data shall be obtained only for one or more specified and lawful purpose, and shall not be further processed in any manner incompatible with that purpose(s)
• Personal data shall be adequate, relevant and not excessive in relation to the purpose(s) for which it is being processed.
• Personal data shall be accurate, and where necessary, kept up to date
• Personal data shall not be kept for longer than necessary
• Personal data shall be processed in accordance with the rights of the data subject under the Act
• Security – Appropriate measures taken to ensure against unauthorised or unlawful processing, accidental loss, destruction or damage to personal data
• Personal data shall not be transferred outside of the European Union (EU) unless the country has adequate levels of protections in relation to processing of personal data’

From here;

http://democracy.northyorks.gov.uk/Functio...n=GetFileFromDB

Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
southpaw82
post Fri, 2 Aug 2019 - 19:40
Post #20


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 33,610
Joined: 2 Apr 2008
From: Not in the UK
Member No.: 18,483



The Data Protection Act 1998?


--------------------
Moderator

Any comments made do not constitute legal advice and should not be relied upon. No lawyer/client relationship should be assumed nor should any duty of care be owed.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post

2 Pages V   1 2 >
Reply to this topicStart new topic
1 User(s) are reading this topic (1 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members:

 



Advertisement

Advertise here!

RSS Lo-Fi Version Time is now: Friday, 29th March 2024 - 08:17
Pepipoo uses cookies. You can find details of the cookies we use here along with links to information on how to manage them.
Please click the button to accept our cookies and hide this message. We’ll also assume that you’re happy to accept them if you continue to use the site.
IPS Driver Error

IPS Driver Error

There appears to be an error with the database.
You can try to refresh the page by clicking here