PePiPoo Helping the motorist get justice Support health workers

Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

NCP final notice for overstaying
oh-no-not-anothe...
post Wed, 17 Oct 2018 - 13:48
Post #1


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 20
Joined: 17 Oct 2018
Member No.: 100,442



I have just received a final notice or rather Keeper Liability Notice from NCP for parking in one of their carparks on 1st September. I didn't receive the first notice as we've recently moved and it presumably went to old address. However, I have received this notice as this was redirected. This notice says there is no appeal and fine is £100, threatening debt recovery and court etc - so have 14 days to pay up from second working day after date of sending notice (11/10/18) or 25/10/18 (which is only 2 days by my calculation so should be 27th then?).

At the time of parking the driver was unaware of newly installed ANPR because apparently the carpark had been recently taken over by NCP even though their distinctive orange notices hadn’t yet been installed. The driver recently saw notices have since changed to NCP ones. Back in September the old notices from previous operator were still there so no obvious mention of ANPR and the driver didn't spot or notice any wording about paying £100 fine for overstaying.

Apparently the driver overstayed by 20 minutes even though the driver had paid £1 for an hour - the only option is to pay in hourly increments so even if you go over by 10 minutes you are expected to pay for an extra hour. According to the phone record, the driver paid by phone for the first hour and then made 2 attempts to phone to extend before the hour was up, but we don't know whether that meant the driver had successfully paid up for a 2nd hour.

So I'm not not sure what to do now as I haven't received first notice so cannot supposedly appeal. I could pay (£100 for not paying £1 apparently) or I could write to NCP saying didn't receive first notice or some sort of defence to get them to restart process at new address? I could write to retail park owners/managers asking them to cancel as the driver was visiting four different shops in their retail centre including a big supermarket, so they were customers spending money there.

What is best course of action? Thank you for any suggestions!

This post has been edited by oh-no-not-another-one: Wed, 17 Oct 2018 - 21:09
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
2 Pages V   1 2 >  
Start new topic
Replies (1 - 19)
Advertisement
post Wed, 17 Oct 2018 - 13:48
Post #


Advertise here!









Go to the top of the page
 
Quote Post
kommando
post Wed, 17 Oct 2018 - 15:02
Post #2


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 4,167
Joined: 6 Oct 2012
Member No.: 57,558



Na

This post has been edited by kommando: Thu, 18 Oct 2018 - 20:57
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Jlc
post Wed, 17 Oct 2018 - 15:17
Post #3


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 41,505
Joined: 25 Aug 2011
From: Planet Earth
Member No.: 49,223



QUOTE (oh-no-not-another-one @ Wed, 17 Oct 2018 - 14:48) *
At the time of parking the driver was unaware of newly installed ANPR because apparently the carpark had been recently taken over by NCP even though their distinctive orange notices hadn’t yet been installed. Upon going back recently I see notices have now changed to NCP ones. Back in September the old notices from previous operator were still there so no mention of ANPR and the driver didn't spot or notice any wording about paying £100 fine for overstaying.

Signage is key, but then again so is evidence to show it was insufficient. (Obviously you are a witness but more weight would be given to photo's at the material time)

QUOTE (oh-no-not-another-one @ Wed, 17 Oct 2018 - 14:48) *
the only option is to pay in hourly increments so even if you go over by 10 minutes you are expected to pay for an extra hour.

This is quite normal for all car parks - 'pro rata' tariffs are not offered.


NCP are not particularly litigious but dipped their toes on a few cases - they have 6 years to pursue.

It's probably still worth writing them an 'appeal' - they will probably dig their heels in and say it's too late. But you can put across the key points should they issue a claim - would seem more reasonable than 'ignoring'.

If true, it might be worth pointing out that you've been denied an appeal just because the DVLA were updating their records.

This post has been edited by Jlc: Wed, 17 Oct 2018 - 15:18


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
oh-no-not-anothe...
post Wed, 17 Oct 2018 - 18:26
Post #4


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 20
Joined: 17 Oct 2018
Member No.: 100,442



Thanks for steps so far!
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
SchoolRunMum
post Wed, 17 Oct 2018 - 18:33
Post #5


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 18,751
Joined: 20 Sep 2009
Member No.: 32,130



No paying.

Write as oh-no-not-another-one's friend (any old name will do, but maybe someone who was really there with you) at OLD ADDRESS and tell NCP that oh-no-not-another-one has moved away and they can be contacted at NEW ADDRESS.

Finish by saying the friend wants NCP to erase the old address data and that they should now send a PCN to oh-no-not-another-one, so he/she can appeal in the normal way.

Then hopefully NCP will send you a PCN to start again. No paying even if they don't!

If they DO send a fresh PCN to the new address, don't appeal as driver, obviously, as covered on any parking thread you care to read on here or on MSE forum!
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
ostell
post Wed, 17 Oct 2018 - 19:42
Post #6


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 17,088
Joined: 8 Mar 2013
Member No.: 60,457



And edit post 1 as requested so that the identity of the driver cannot be inferred. Use "the driver ....." etc
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
oh-no-not-anothe...
post Wed, 17 Oct 2018 - 21:10
Post #7


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 20
Joined: 17 Oct 2018
Member No.: 100,442



Thank you for advice!
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
oh-no-not-anothe...
post Thu, 18 Oct 2018 - 12:40
Post #8


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 20
Joined: 17 Oct 2018
Member No.: 100,442



Thanks for the advice so far...just an update.. thought I would try a complaint to shopping centre where fine occurred to see if they would cancel it.
All I got from a junior member of management team was a stock answer that they can't cancel and have no influence over NCP so would forward it on to NCP.
I was about to reply don't bother contacting NCP on my behalf, when I saw the message forwarded on to NCP - which just sums up the attitude all round.
See email below. To spare their blushes for now I've blanked out names. What do you think? I'm so tempted to show them up and complain to the press and centre's owners/ MD or CEO (an investment fund so probably won't make much difference).

From: xxxx [mailto:xxxx@the-xxx.co.uk]
Sent: 18 October 2018 13:06
To: xxxx
Cc: xxxx
Subject: FW: Contactform by xxx

Hi both,

Another complaint for you unfortunately! Sounds like she’s in the wrong to me, but I said I would forward on to you guys

Thank you

Kind Regards

xxxx

Retail Liaison Administrator

xxxx Shopping Centre


And on top of that I got a reply from NCP person asking to arrange an appointment to chat on phone. Not sure what that will achieve unless they might be embarrassed by a complaint on facebook.

What's the next move?
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
SchoolRunMum
post Thu, 18 Oct 2018 - 16:26
Post #9


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 18,751
Joined: 20 Sep 2009
Member No.: 32,130



That's ruined the planned tactic of getting a PCN actually sent out to you now, as per my advice you can't now follow. Darn.

No phoning.

Send NCP a SAR, GIVING YOUR NEW ADDRESS (require the Data Protection Officer to update it) and ask for all photos taken, all exchanges between them and the retail park, all data held in any format, all updates and case notes and DVLA lookup, the lot, and copies of all letters sent.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
oh-no-not-anothe...
post Thu, 18 Oct 2018 - 18:54
Post #10


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 20
Joined: 17 Oct 2018
Member No.: 100,442



That's true SchoolRunMum, I wasn't expecting them to automatically forward on, but I kept it vague and didn't identify myself or PCN etc as just wanted to see if retail centre would offer to intervene favourably and then divulge. I could just send letter to NCP as was planning to say just received notice due to recent move to restart process and generate POPLA cod. Can send SAR separately and go from there.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
SchoolRunMum
post Thu, 18 Oct 2018 - 19:34
Post #11


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 18,751
Joined: 20 Sep 2009
Member No.: 32,130



QUOTE
I could just send letter to NCP as was planning to say just received notice due to recent move to restart process and generate POPLA code.


No that won't work, IMHO, and that was why I described exactly who has to write. Not you.

If the PPC got a letter from Joe Bloggs at the old address telling them to delete the address data and to send the PCN to the real registered keeper at his/her new address, there is every chance many PPCs would do just that.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
oh-no-not-anothe...
post Fri, 19 Oct 2018 - 00:56
Post #12


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 20
Joined: 17 Oct 2018
Member No.: 100,442



But could still try your suggestion of sending a letter from J Bloggs about new address as complaint to retail centre and forwarded to NCP didn't identify any PCN details or give a name, only an email address which doesn't identify a name.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
SchoolRunMum
post Fri, 19 Oct 2018 - 12:07
Post #13


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 18,751
Joined: 20 Sep 2009
Member No.: 32,130



Yes try it, the tactic has been used before and should get a PCN arriving to the right address. Nothing to lose.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
oh-no-not-anothe...
post Wed, 14 Nov 2018 - 14:05
Post #14


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 20
Joined: 17 Oct 2018
Member No.: 100,442



An update on situation so far, and request for advice about next steps please...
Understand aim is to get POPLA code ideally to stop it, etc.

Because Notice to Driver and Keeper was being sent to wrong (former) address, J Bloggs was returning to sender and told NCP to send any PCN letters to correct address, so no mention at all about driver / keeper identity, just suggesting to allow correct process for appeal by sending to new address.

Now finally get a Notice to Driver at current address, asking for £100 (£60 within 14 days) but does not mention being able to appeal to POPLA, as Notice to Keeper "has already been served on registered keeper" (at old address so I've not received it). It says they've been advised that I am driver so liable for payment - so not sure where they've got that from as have not written to NCP, just waiting to see if would reissue PCN and start process to get POPLA code.

What should I do now? They mention after 28 days if charge referred to in NTK not paid, creditor has right to recover, etc, Presumably after 28 days instead of serving new NTK at new address, they will go straight to debt collector stage?

Obviously I want to make it clear I'm not saying who was driver but not sure how to get POPLA code if they've already decided the NTK has been correctly served?
Do I write making it clear not declaring who driver is and send initial appeal in any case?
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
nosferatu1001
post Wed, 14 Nov 2018 - 14:56
Post #15


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 28,687
Joined: 27 Nov 2007
Member No.: 15,642



You tell them
1) there has not been an appela
2) your appela isl....

3) that the driver has NOT been nominated, and if they disagree you require a copy of the dodcuments showing this alleged nomination
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
oh-no-not-anothe...
post Thu, 15 Nov 2018 - 12:01
Post #16


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 20
Joined: 17 Oct 2018
Member No.: 100,442



Thanks Nosferatu, will do that. Will also send SAR requesting everything and telling them to ensure address updated.
Any further advice welcome!
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
oh-no-not-anothe...
post Fri, 16 Nov 2018 - 21:46
Post #17


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 20
Joined: 17 Oct 2018
Member No.: 100,442



Hi Nosferatu /SchoolRunMum /anyone - Thanks for advice so far.

Wanted to check:
- is there any way they can get out of sending POPLA code when appealing as a Keeper in replying to a PCN to Driver?
- is their keeper liability under POFA 2012 affected as did not receive NTK (sent elsewhere) and PCN to Driver sent more than 2 months after incident? If so, bring up in this appeal or wait until POPLA (if get code)?

Thanks.

This post has been edited by oh-no-not-another-one: Mon, 19 Nov 2018 - 10:30
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
oh-no-not-anothe...
post Sat, 17 Nov 2018 - 23:49
Post #18


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 20
Joined: 17 Oct 2018
Member No.: 100,442



Hi, if anyone could answer my last post please, that would be a real help, thanks.

Is it worth putting in at this stage of appeal a line about they must supply evidence of what signage was actually in place on day of incident (i.e to determine when new/ 'correct' signage was put in)? And add that we have driver’s evidence that old signage was still in place so incorrect/misleading signage etc? Or save mentioning that evidence for POPLA if it gets there?

Thanks.

This post has been edited by oh-no-not-another-one: Mon, 19 Nov 2018 - 10:23
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
nosferatu1001
post Mon, 19 Nov 2018 - 07:51
Post #19


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 28,687
Joined: 27 Nov 2007
Member No.: 15,642



The forum is far less busy with regulars at the weekend

Appeal AS KEEPER, as you have bene told repeatedly.
They HAVE to send a POPLA code if they reject. They haveno choice in the matter.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
oh-no-not-anothe...
post Mon, 19 Nov 2018 - 10:38
Post #20


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 20
Joined: 17 Oct 2018
Member No.: 100,442



Thanks for reply. Yep, I understand need to appeal as keeper, had no intention of appealing as driver. That wasn’t what was asking - it was to check if NCP can in anyway avoid/ wriggle out of sending POPLA code when appealing as keeper on a PCN to Driver.

The other questions wanted advice on were:
- Is there any point at first appeal demanding evidence of signage on date of incident as signage was from previous operator - wasn’t changed for months after moving to new operator?
- Should this appeal say have got evidence from driver that old signage still in place. (therefore misleading customers unaware of changes - to new operator, new charge, new camera system, etc) or wait until POPLA (if get code)?
- is their keeper liability under POFA 2012 affected if keeper didn't receive NTK (sent elsewhere) and PCN to Driver then sent more than 2 months after incident? If so, bring up in this appeal or wait until POPLA (if get code)?
Thank you!
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post

2 Pages V   1 2 >
Reply to this topicStart new topic
1 User(s) are reading this topic (1 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members:

 



Advertisement

Advertise here!

RSS Lo-Fi Version Time is now: Thursday, 28th March 2024 - 15:07
Pepipoo uses cookies. You can find details of the cookies we use here along with links to information on how to manage them.
Please click the button to accept our cookies and hide this message. We’ll also assume that you’re happy to accept them if you continue to use the site.
IPS Driver Error

IPS Driver Error

There appears to be an error with the database.
You can try to refresh the page by clicking here