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[NIP Wizard] Speeding - Very late NIP 33 days after incident - possible error
Slugerman
post Thu, 13 Dec 2018 - 19:21
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NIP Details and Circumstances
What is the name of the Constabulary? -
Date of the offence: - November 2018
Date of the NIP: - 33 days after the offence
Date you received the NIP: - 34 days after the offence
Location of offence (exact location as it appears on the NIP: important): - A4110 Canon Pyon towards Leominster, Herefordshire
Was the NIP addressed to you? - Yes
Was the NIP sent by first class post, second class or recorded delivery? - First
If your are not the Registered Keeper, what is your relationship to the vehicle? -
How many current points do you have? - 0
Provide a description of events (if you know what happened) telling us as much about the incident as possible - some things that may seem trivial to you may be important, so don't leave anything out. Please do not post personal details for obvious reasons - Speeding NIP froom West Mercia police received on 13/12/18, with issue date 12/12/18, 33 days after the date of the alleged speeding incident of 9/11/18. This appears to be unbelievably 'late' and way outside the 14 days. From a manned speed camera vehicle, although I do not recall being in the area at the time (and have some evidence to prove this - i.e. a call schedule). Do I write to the camera ticket office and say that the NIP should be cancelled, do I have to provide details on the form of the driver/or a response on the form. This seems to be incrediby careless on the part of the force. Are they 'trying it on" - if so, this I think is a serious issue and should be reported? Any advice you can give much appreciated.

NIP Wizard Responses
These were the responses used by the Wizard to arrive at its recommendation:
Have you received a NIP? - Yes
Are you the Registered Keeper of the vehicle concerned (is your name and address on the V5/V5C)? - Yes
Did the first NIP arrive within 14 days? - No
Was there a valid reason for the NIP's late arrival? - No

NIP Wizard Recommendation
Based on these responses the Wizard suggested that this course of action should be considered:
  • The first NIP to the Registered Keeper must arrive within 14 days unless there is a valid reason why that was not possible, for example a recent change of details.

    This link will take you to the advice provided by the RAC's legal team.

Generated by the PePiPoo NIP Wizard v3.3.2: Thu, 13 Dec 2018 19:21:35 +0000
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post Thu, 13 Dec 2018 - 19:21
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BaggieBoy
post Thu, 13 Dec 2018 - 20:05
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Clearly it is not the first "NIP". Either it went to someone else first or it is a reminder.

Are you truly the RK?
What is the name and address on the V5C?
Recently bought the vehicle or moved address?

Regardless under S172 you still have to name the driver within 28 days.
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Slugerman
post Thu, 13 Dec 2018 - 20:40
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Thanks for your response - much appreciated.

Typically, there's no way that I can see of checking from the form whether it has gone to someone else first and I'm pretty sure it's not a reminder (I can't think the police would be that helpful!) but your point about ownership has almost certainly provided the explanation (for which many thanks) - in that the car is leased since May 2018 and of course I do not therefore possess the V5C. I will need to check with the leasing company but the NIP has still taken over a month to get here. I expect the police will argue that the 14 days does not apply under these circumstances.

Re naming the driver, interestingly, the form West Mercia police use - and I'm not sure it's standard across the country - does not give an option of disputing it about the 14 days receipt. Looks like I'm going to have to bite the bullet - even though I don't recall driving through a speed check.

Thanks once again.
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Jlc
post Thu, 13 Dec 2018 - 20:43
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QUOTE (Slugerman @ Thu, 13 Dec 2018 - 19:21) *
This seems to be incrediby careless on the part of the force. Are they 'trying it on" - if so, this I think is a serious issue and should be reported?

Plate misreads are not uncommon. But contrary to popular belief they don't 'try it on' - there's more than enough customers that they don't need to fabricate.

As above, it's unlikely to be the 1st NIP but check the documentation reference date on your V5C - in DD MM YY format at the bottom of page 2. This is the date the DVLA had your current details - is the address 100% spot on?

One approach is to simply ask for photo's to assist in the identification or a bemused phone call if it doesn't appear to be your car. Not recalling being in the area isn't sufficient.

QUOTE (Slugerman @ Thu, 13 Dec 2018 - 20:40) *
I expect the police will argue that the 14 days does not apply under these circumstances.

The 14 days only applies to the 1st NIP. It is highly likely they complied with this.

QUOTE (Slugerman @ Thu, 13 Dec 2018 - 20:40) *
Re naming the driver, interestingly, the form West Mercia police use - and I'm not sure it's standard across the country - does not give an option of disputing it about the 14 days receipt. Looks like I'm going to have to bite the bullet - even though I don't recall driving through a speed check.

No option, but you take it to court to dispute that. (But that's not done lightly as it could be very costly)

Why are you going to bite the bullet if you weren't there? Or were you?


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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NeverMind
post Thu, 13 Dec 2018 - 21:24
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QUOTE (Slugerman @ Thu, 13 Dec 2018 - 20:40) *
and of course I do not therefore possess the V5C. I will need to check with the leasing company but the NIP has still taken over a month to get here. I expect the police will argue that the 14 days does not apply under these circumstances.



And they'd be correct. Obviously the 14 day rule only applies to the registered keeper.
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The Rookie
post Thu, 13 Dec 2018 - 21:50
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As you’ll know from the form you have 28 days to reply, so the NIP that went to the registered keeper (leasing company or maybe a finance company before that) with them allowed 28 days to reply the timing to you is perfectly acceptable.

There is only one exception to the registered keeper having the V5c and that is mobility supplied cars, if you don’t have the V5c you aren’t the registered keeper.


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BertB
post Fri, 14 Dec 2018 - 09:23
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QUOTE
although I do not recall being in the area at the time (and have some evidence to prove this - i.e. a call schedule)


Were you in that area at all on that day?

As others have pointed out, the 14 days only apply to the first NIP in the chain. The recipient then has 28 days in which to provide a response so 33 days is not that late from that perspective.

But I would explore the circumstances as to whether you were in that area at the time. Plate misreads do happen, but occasionally the time is wrong on the device hence the question.
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Slugerman
post Fri, 14 Dec 2018 - 18:04
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Everyone - thanks for the replies. About whether I actually was there, as the alleged incident was well over a month ago, I can't exactly recall from my call schedules whether I might have taken a route well outside of the usual (for whatever reason) between calls. It's unlikely but possible (road closure?) - I don't recall doing so nor seeing the camera vehicle. Recorded speed was 35 in a 30 mph limit. But I suspect that "I can't remember" will not carry much weight as the only evidence I have is my call log at the time. The NIP itself raises a technical question which I think could be confusing or possibly challenged with regard to the 14 day issue period - the issue date on the form clearly states 12 December 2018, the alleged incident is 9 November 2018. It seems to be a procedural point and I'm not familiar with the police NIP procedure, but the NIP must have been issued "late" and it was sent direct to me, and it was not forwarded by the leasing company. I can only surmise that the leasing company sent the NIP back to the police once the police had established the registered keeper via DVLA. As I mentioned earlier I will contact the leasing company to see if they have a record of any correspondence, but I doubt it will be of any import to them.

Once again, I appreciate your input.

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peterguk
post Fri, 14 Dec 2018 - 18:34
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The first NIP will have been sent to the RK, the leasing company.

They will have named you, and you have been sent your own NIP.

No 14 day error.


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southpaw82
post Fri, 14 Dec 2018 - 18:39
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There is no requirement whatsoever to send an NIP to you if one has been served on the registered keeper. Therefore, it’d matter whether it is late or not.


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Any comments made do not constitute legal advice and should not be relied upon. No lawyer/client relationship should be assumed nor should any duty of care be owed.
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Jlc
post Fri, 14 Dec 2018 - 21:06
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QUOTE (southpaw82 @ Fri, 14 Dec 2018 - 18:39) *
Therefore, it wouldn't matter whether it is late or not.

Small typo?


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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southpaw82
post Fri, 14 Dec 2018 - 21:07
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QUOTE (Jlc @ Fri, 14 Dec 2018 - 21:06) *
QUOTE (southpaw82 @ Fri, 14 Dec 2018 - 18:39) *
Therefore, it wouldn't matter whether it is late or not.

Small typo?

Apparently.


--------------------
Moderator

Any comments made do not constitute legal advice and should not be relied upon. No lawyer/client relationship should be assumed nor should any duty of care be owed.
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