PePiPoo Helping the motorist get justice Support health workers

Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

[NIP Wizard] Accused of speeding 106mph on M25 with no temporary speed limit by camera. J15 to 16 Iver.
Zach
post Fri, 2 Feb 2018 - 12:50
Post #1


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 15
Joined: 23 Oct 2012
Member No.: 57,864



NIP Details and Circumstances
What is the name of the Constabulary? -
Date of the offence: - January 2018
Date of the NIP: - 2 days after the offence
Date you received the NIP: - 3 days after the offence
Location of offence (exact location as it appears on the NIP: important): - M25 Junction 15 to 16, Iver, United Kingdom
Was the NIP addressed to you? - Yes
Was the NIP sent by first class post, second class or recorded delivery? - First
If your are not the Registered Keeper, what is your relationship to the vehicle? -
How many current points do you have? - 0
Provide a description of events (if you know what happened) telling us as much about the incident as possible - some things that may seem trivial to you may be important, so don't leave anything out. Please do not post personal details for obvious reasons - I recall being abroad and arrived at Heathrow at 20.00 hours on 30/01/2018. My vehicle was parked at Heathrow airport and I began my drive home accompanied by my wife.

I recall seeing a flash around the junction of 15 and 16 whilst passing. There were no red temporary lights and I am confident there was no temporary speed limit. I use this motorway regularly and I presume this is all to do with these smart motorways that are activated in regular national speed limit conditions?

I also have a query on whether Iver is Surrey's jurisdiction and whether this can form a defence? I am certain that the area is covered by Metropolitan police or Thames Valley Police.

The speed I was recorded doing was 106mph. This may well be accurate cannot be certain. I was caught using an automatic camera device.

I have a clean license thus far.


NIP Wizard Responses
These were the responses used by the Wizard to arrive at its recommendation:
Have you received a NIP? - Yes
Are you the Registered Keeper of the vehicle concerned (is your name and address on the V5/V5C)? - Yes
Did the first NIP arrive within 14 days? - Yes
Although you are the Registered Keeper, were you also the keeper of the vehicle concerned (the person normally responsible for it) at the time of the alleged offence? - Yes
Were you driving? - Yes
Which country did the alleged offence take place in? - England

NIP Wizard Recommendation
Based on these responses the Wizard suggested that this course of action should be considered:
  • The law requires you to provide the information requested in the Section 172 notice within the 28 day period, naming yourself as the driver. If you are considering obtaining formal legal advice, do so before returning the notice.

    You should note that there is nothing to be gained by responding any earlier than you have to at any stage of the process. You are likely to receive a Conditional Offer of a Fixed Penalty (COFP) and further reminder(s). If you want to continue the fight, you should ignore all correspondence from the police until you receive a summons. You need to understand from the outset that while you will receive much help and support from members on the forums, you will need to put time and effort into fighting your case and ultimately be prepared to stand up in court to defend yourself.

Generated by the PePiPoo NIP Wizard v3.3.2: Fri, 02 Feb 2018 12:50:49 +0000

This post has been edited by Zach: Fri, 2 Feb 2018 - 12:54
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
2 Pages V   1 2 >  
Start new topic
Replies (1 - 19)
Advertisement
post Fri, 2 Feb 2018 - 12:50
Post #


Advertise here!









Go to the top of the page
 
Quote Post
AntonyMMM
post Fri, 2 Feb 2018 - 13:01
Post #2


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 1,547
Joined: 17 May 2010
Member No.: 37,614



As you have found, cameras on "Smart" motorways can be, and are, used to enforce the NSL limit when no other limit is displayed.

Jurisdiction is irrelevant to you - neighbouring forces have agreements about who processes offences on different sections of motorway.

Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Jlc
post Fri, 2 Feb 2018 - 13:20
Post #3


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 41,510
Joined: 25 Aug 2011
From: Planet Earth
Member No.: 49,223



No defence is apparent from what you've said thus far.

That will be a trip to court where a short ban will be considered, otherwise 6 points.

A fine of around 1 week's relevant earnings, costs of £85 and a surcharge of 10% of the fine (min £30).


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Zach
post Fri, 2 Feb 2018 - 14:19
Post #4


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 15
Joined: 23 Oct 2012
Member No.: 57,864



Thanks for your reply guys. So far it seems clear cut and I’ll have to take it on the chin.

End of the day, I probably was speeding although on a personal note, I find the smart cameras very sneaky.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
NewJudge
post Fri, 2 Feb 2018 - 19:32
Post #5


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 4,746
Joined: 29 Oct 2008
Member No.: 23,623



QUOTE (Zach @ Fri, 2 Feb 2018 - 14:19) *
... although on a personal note, I find the smart cameras very sneaky.


What you mean the ones on those great big gantries, with a big "camera" motif every so often? Or do you mean they are sneaky in that they're OK to capture you exceeding a temporary speed limit but a bit underhand if they catch you exceeding the NSL? cool.gif
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Zach
post Fri, 2 Feb 2018 - 20:08
Post #6


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 15
Joined: 23 Oct 2012
Member No.: 57,864



QUOTE (NewJudge @ Fri, 2 Feb 2018 - 19:32) *
QUOTE (Zach @ Fri, 2 Feb 2018 - 14:19) *
... although on a personal note, I find the smart cameras very sneaky.


What you mean the ones on those great big gantries, with a big "camera" motif every so often? Or do you mean they are sneaky in that they're OK to capture you exceeding a temporary speed limit but a bit underhand if they catch you exceeding the NSL? cool.gif


Sneaky in the sense of being unexpected going over the national speed limit. Does not need to be done but that’s another argument
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Jlc
post Fri, 2 Feb 2018 - 20:12
Post #7


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 41,510
Joined: 25 Aug 2011
From: Planet Earth
Member No.: 49,223



Exceeding the NSL (significantly) can always be expected to be dealt with. (Frankly major motorways are not a good place to speed nowadays)

I wouldn't suggest saying to the court that they are sneaky and unnecessary...

This post has been edited by Jlc: Fri, 2 Feb 2018 - 20:13


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
peterguk
post Fri, 2 Feb 2018 - 20:17
Post #8


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 13,735
Joined: 22 Oct 2007
Member No.: 14,720



QUOTE (Zach @ Fri, 2 Feb 2018 - 20:08) *
Sneaky in the sense of being unexpected going over the national speed limit.


QUOTE (Zach @ Fri, 2 Feb 2018 - 12:50) *
The speed I was recorded doing was 106mph.


How do you unexpectedly exceed the speed limit by 50%?


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Jlc
post Fri, 2 Feb 2018 - 20:19
Post #9


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 41,510
Joined: 25 Aug 2011
From: Planet Earth
Member No.: 49,223



I think being captured was unexpected rather than...


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
NewJudge
post Fri, 2 Feb 2018 - 21:55
Post #10


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 4,746
Joined: 29 Oct 2008
Member No.: 23,623



I think the issue is that there is a widespread belief that these cameras only work when a temporary reduced speed limit is displayed. (There was a question a week or two back on those lines). That's clearly no longer so (if indeed it ever was). I think that's where the "sneakiness" rears its head.

This post has been edited by NewJudge: Fri, 2 Feb 2018 - 21:56
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
thisisntme
post Fri, 2 Feb 2018 - 22:30
Post #11


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 720
Joined: 11 May 2014
Member No.: 70,566



QUOTE (NewJudge @ Fri, 2 Feb 2018 - 21:55) *
I think the issue is that there is a widespread belief that these cameras only work when a temporary reduced speed limit is displayed. (There was a question a week or two back on those lines). That's clearly no longer so (if indeed it ever was). I think that's where the "sneakiness" rears its head.


There was a post on MSE where someone wouldn't accept that cameras are active even when the gantries aren't showing a speed limit. He described all the reports on here as 2nd hand hearsay...


--------------------
I reserve the right to be wrong.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
notmeatloaf
post Fri, 2 Feb 2018 - 22:57
Post #12


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 3,306
Joined: 4 Mar 2017
Member No.: 90,659



It would appear that the cameras are set significantly higher than the "normal" threshold of 79mph, with it appearing to be roughly 95mph. I suppose if they are active they have to decide on a "this is taking the piss" level.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Barry S
post Sat, 3 Feb 2018 - 06:49
Post #13


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 344
Joined: 9 Feb 2013
From: London
Member No.: 59,866



As an aside, policing on the M25 is the joint responsibility of Essex, Hertfordshire, Kent, Surrey, Thames Valley and the Met.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
thisisntme
post Sat, 3 Feb 2018 - 11:02
Post #14


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 720
Joined: 11 May 2014
Member No.: 70,566



QUOTE (notmeatloaf @ Fri, 2 Feb 2018 - 22:57) *
It would appear that the cameras are set significantly higher than the "normal" threshold of 79mph, with it appearing to be roughly 95mph. I suppose if they are active they have to decide on a "this is taking the piss" level.


Well it's a case of Southpaw's favourite Dirty Harry quote then...


--------------------
I reserve the right to be wrong.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
cp8759
post Mon, 5 Feb 2018 - 14:43
Post #15


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 38,006
Joined: 3 Dec 2010
Member No.: 42,618



QUOTE (Barry S @ Sat, 3 Feb 2018 - 06:49) *
As an aside, policing on the M25 is the joint responsibility of Essex, Hertfordshire, Kent, Surrey, Thames Valley and the Met.

Quite aside from that, all police officers attested in England & Wales have jurisdiction over the whole of England and Wales, so the jurisdiction point is a real non-starter.


--------------------
If you would like assistance with a penalty charge notice, please post a thread on https://www.ftla.uk/index.php
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Zach
post Mon, 13 Aug 2018 - 07:44
Post #16


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 15
Joined: 23 Oct 2012
Member No.: 57,864



Hi all, latest update is other than the NIP sent in early February 2018 that was promptly completed, I’ve heard nothing back from the police. Six months have elapsed.

Does this mean I am one fortunate person and cannot be prosecuted?
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Jlc
post Mon, 13 Aug 2018 - 07:53
Post #17


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 41,510
Joined: 25 Aug 2011
From: Planet Earth
Member No.: 49,223



QUOTE (Zach @ Mon, 13 Aug 2018 - 08:44) *
Does this mean I am one fortunate person and cannot be prosecuted?

Not quite in the clear yet.

...expecting discussion about whether the 6 months to commence prosecution was met or not. (The court paperwork can arrive after this time frame)


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Zach
post Mon, 13 Aug 2018 - 08:42
Post #18


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 15
Joined: 23 Oct 2012
Member No.: 57,864



QUOTE (Jlc @ Mon, 13 Aug 2018 - 08:53) *
QUOTE (Zach @ Mon, 13 Aug 2018 - 08:44) *
Does this mean I am one fortunate person and cannot be prosecuted?

Not quite in the clear yet.

...expecting discussion about whether the 6 months to commence prosecution was met or not. (The court paperwork can arrive after this time frame)


Although the alleged offence occurred on 30th January 2018, the NIP was received by 2nd February 2018 and completed a few days later. If court paperwork can arrive after the time frame than surely law has a time limit on this?
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Slapdash
post Mon, 13 Aug 2018 - 08:45
Post #19


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 1,864
Joined: 2 Aug 2016
Member No.: 86,040



QUOTE (notmeatloaf @ Fri, 2 Feb 2018 - 23:57) *
It would appear that the cameras are set significantly higher than the "normal" threshold of 79mph, with it appearing to be roughly 95mph. I suppose if they are active they have to decide on a "this is taking the piss" level.


I am unsure about that. My son got a 81 mph nip of an nsl stretch of smart M5.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Jlc
post Mon, 13 Aug 2018 - 09:16
Post #20


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 41,510
Joined: 25 Aug 2011
From: Planet Earth
Member No.: 49,223



QUOTE (Zach @ Mon, 13 Aug 2018 - 09:42) *
Although the alleged offence occurred on 30th January 2018, the NIP was received by 2nd February 2018 and completed a few days later. If court paperwork can arrive after the time frame than surely law has a time limit on this?

Any prosecution has to commence within 6 months. That doesn't mean the defendant gets notification within 6 months.

Previously the Police had to 'lay information' with the court within that time frame and the court would then send out the paperwork, usually within about 1 month. (So 7 months was not unusual)

Nowadays, a different procedure is used (see here) but the net effect is about the same. You could contact them now to see if the matter has progressed - there's no risk in doing so. Otherwise, it could be another couple of weeks before you hear and you can check if everything is in order. All presuming they have the correct address and the post arrived of course.


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post

2 Pages V   1 2 >
Reply to this topicStart new topic
1 User(s) are reading this topic (1 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members:

 



Advertisement

Advertise here!

RSS Lo-Fi Version Time is now: Thursday, 28th March 2024 - 22:43
Pepipoo uses cookies. You can find details of the cookies we use here along with links to information on how to manage them.
Please click the button to accept our cookies and hide this message. We’ll also assume that you’re happy to accept them if you continue to use the site.
IPS Driver Error

IPS Driver Error

There appears to be an error with the database.
You can try to refresh the page by clicking here