[NIP Wizard] Accused of speeding 106mph on M25 with no temporary speed limit by camera. J15 to 16 Iver. |
[NIP Wizard] Accused of speeding 106mph on M25 with no temporary speed limit by camera. J15 to 16 Iver. |
Fri, 2 Feb 2018 - 12:50
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#1
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Member Group: Members Posts: 15 Joined: 23 Oct 2012 Member No.: 57,864 |
NIP Details and Circumstances
What is the name of the Constabulary? - Date of the offence: - January 2018 Date of the NIP: - 2 days after the offence Date you received the NIP: - 3 days after the offence Location of offence (exact location as it appears on the NIP: important): - M25 Junction 15 to 16, Iver, United Kingdom Was the NIP addressed to you? - Yes Was the NIP sent by first class post, second class or recorded delivery? - First If your are not the Registered Keeper, what is your relationship to the vehicle? - How many current points do you have? - 0 Provide a description of events (if you know what happened) telling us as much about the incident as possible - some things that may seem trivial to you may be important, so don't leave anything out. Please do not post personal details for obvious reasons - I recall being abroad and arrived at Heathrow at 20.00 hours on 30/01/2018. My vehicle was parked at Heathrow airport and I began my drive home accompanied by my wife. I recall seeing a flash around the junction of 15 and 16 whilst passing. There were no red temporary lights and I am confident there was no temporary speed limit. I use this motorway regularly and I presume this is all to do with these smart motorways that are activated in regular national speed limit conditions? I also have a query on whether Iver is Surrey's jurisdiction and whether this can form a defence? I am certain that the area is covered by Metropolitan police or Thames Valley Police. The speed I was recorded doing was 106mph. This may well be accurate cannot be certain. I was caught using an automatic camera device. I have a clean license thus far. NIP Wizard Responses These were the responses used by the Wizard to arrive at its recommendation: Have you received a NIP? - Yes Are you the Registered Keeper of the vehicle concerned (is your name and address on the V5/V5C)? - Yes Did the first NIP arrive within 14 days? - Yes Although you are the Registered Keeper, were you also the keeper of the vehicle concerned (the person normally responsible for it) at the time of the alleged offence? - Yes Were you driving? - Yes Which country did the alleged offence take place in? - England NIP Wizard Recommendation Based on these responses the Wizard suggested that this course of action should be considered:
Generated by the PePiPoo NIP Wizard v3.3.2: Fri, 02 Feb 2018 12:50:49 +0000 This post has been edited by Zach: Fri, 2 Feb 2018 - 12:54 |
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Fri, 2 Feb 2018 - 12:50
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Fri, 2 Feb 2018 - 13:01
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#2
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Member Group: Members Posts: 1,547 Joined: 17 May 2010 Member No.: 37,614 |
As you have found, cameras on "Smart" motorways can be, and are, used to enforce the NSL limit when no other limit is displayed.
Jurisdiction is irrelevant to you - neighbouring forces have agreements about who processes offences on different sections of motorway. |
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Fri, 2 Feb 2018 - 13:20
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#3
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Member Group: Members Posts: 41,510 Joined: 25 Aug 2011 From: Planet Earth Member No.: 49,223 |
No defence is apparent from what you've said thus far.
That will be a trip to court where a short ban will be considered, otherwise 6 points. A fine of around 1 week's relevant earnings, costs of £85 and a surcharge of 10% of the fine (min £30). -------------------- RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it. |
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Fri, 2 Feb 2018 - 14:19
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#4
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Member Group: Members Posts: 15 Joined: 23 Oct 2012 Member No.: 57,864 |
Thanks for your reply guys. So far it seems clear cut and I’ll have to take it on the chin.
End of the day, I probably was speeding although on a personal note, I find the smart cameras very sneaky. |
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Fri, 2 Feb 2018 - 19:32
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#5
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Member Group: Members Posts: 4,746 Joined: 29 Oct 2008 Member No.: 23,623 |
... although on a personal note, I find the smart cameras very sneaky. What you mean the ones on those great big gantries, with a big "camera" motif every so often? Or do you mean they are sneaky in that they're OK to capture you exceeding a temporary speed limit but a bit underhand if they catch you exceeding the NSL? |
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Fri, 2 Feb 2018 - 20:08
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#6
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Member Group: Members Posts: 15 Joined: 23 Oct 2012 Member No.: 57,864 |
... although on a personal note, I find the smart cameras very sneaky. What you mean the ones on those great big gantries, with a big "camera" motif every so often? Or do you mean they are sneaky in that they're OK to capture you exceeding a temporary speed limit but a bit underhand if they catch you exceeding the NSL? Sneaky in the sense of being unexpected going over the national speed limit. Does not need to be done but that’s another argument |
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Fri, 2 Feb 2018 - 20:12
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#7
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Member Group: Members Posts: 41,510 Joined: 25 Aug 2011 From: Planet Earth Member No.: 49,223 |
Exceeding the NSL (significantly) can always be expected to be dealt with. (Frankly major motorways are not a good place to speed nowadays)
I wouldn't suggest saying to the court that they are sneaky and unnecessary... This post has been edited by Jlc: Fri, 2 Feb 2018 - 20:13 -------------------- RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it. |
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Fri, 2 Feb 2018 - 20:17
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#8
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Member Group: Members Posts: 13,735 Joined: 22 Oct 2007 Member No.: 14,720 |
Sneaky in the sense of being unexpected going over the national speed limit. The speed I was recorded doing was 106mph. How do you unexpectedly exceed the speed limit by 50%? -------------------- |
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Fri, 2 Feb 2018 - 20:19
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#9
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Member Group: Members Posts: 41,510 Joined: 25 Aug 2011 From: Planet Earth Member No.: 49,223 |
I think being captured was unexpected rather than...
-------------------- RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it. |
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Fri, 2 Feb 2018 - 21:55
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#10
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Member Group: Members Posts: 4,746 Joined: 29 Oct 2008 Member No.: 23,623 |
I think the issue is that there is a widespread belief that these cameras only work when a temporary reduced speed limit is displayed. (There was a question a week or two back on those lines). That's clearly no longer so (if indeed it ever was). I think that's where the "sneakiness" rears its head.
This post has been edited by NewJudge: Fri, 2 Feb 2018 - 21:56 |
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Fri, 2 Feb 2018 - 22:30
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#11
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Member Group: Members Posts: 720 Joined: 11 May 2014 Member No.: 70,566 |
I think the issue is that there is a widespread belief that these cameras only work when a temporary reduced speed limit is displayed. (There was a question a week or two back on those lines). That's clearly no longer so (if indeed it ever was). I think that's where the "sneakiness" rears its head. There was a post on MSE where someone wouldn't accept that cameras are active even when the gantries aren't showing a speed limit. He described all the reports on here as 2nd hand hearsay... -------------------- I reserve the right to be wrong.
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Fri, 2 Feb 2018 - 22:57
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#12
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Member Group: Members Posts: 3,306 Joined: 4 Mar 2017 Member No.: 90,659 |
It would appear that the cameras are set significantly higher than the "normal" threshold of 79mph, with it appearing to be roughly 95mph. I suppose if they are active they have to decide on a "this is taking the piss" level.
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Sat, 3 Feb 2018 - 06:49
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#13
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Member Group: Members Posts: 344 Joined: 9 Feb 2013 From: London Member No.: 59,866 |
As an aside, policing on the M25 is the joint responsibility of Essex, Hertfordshire, Kent, Surrey, Thames Valley and the Met.
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Sat, 3 Feb 2018 - 11:02
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#14
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Member Group: Members Posts: 720 Joined: 11 May 2014 Member No.: 70,566 |
It would appear that the cameras are set significantly higher than the "normal" threshold of 79mph, with it appearing to be roughly 95mph. I suppose if they are active they have to decide on a "this is taking the piss" level. Well it's a case of Southpaw's favourite Dirty Harry quote then... -------------------- I reserve the right to be wrong.
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Mon, 5 Feb 2018 - 14:43
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#15
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Member Group: Members Posts: 38,006 Joined: 3 Dec 2010 Member No.: 42,618 |
As an aside, policing on the M25 is the joint responsibility of Essex, Hertfordshire, Kent, Surrey, Thames Valley and the Met. Quite aside from that, all police officers attested in England & Wales have jurisdiction over the whole of England and Wales, so the jurisdiction point is a real non-starter. -------------------- If you would like assistance with a penalty charge notice, please post a thread on https://www.ftla.uk/index.php
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Mon, 13 Aug 2018 - 07:44
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#16
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Member Group: Members Posts: 15 Joined: 23 Oct 2012 Member No.: 57,864 |
Hi all, latest update is other than the NIP sent in early February 2018 that was promptly completed, I’ve heard nothing back from the police. Six months have elapsed.
Does this mean I am one fortunate person and cannot be prosecuted? |
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Mon, 13 Aug 2018 - 07:53
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#17
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Member Group: Members Posts: 41,510 Joined: 25 Aug 2011 From: Planet Earth Member No.: 49,223 |
Does this mean I am one fortunate person and cannot be prosecuted? Not quite in the clear yet. ...expecting discussion about whether the 6 months to commence prosecution was met or not. (The court paperwork can arrive after this time frame) -------------------- RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it. |
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Mon, 13 Aug 2018 - 08:42
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#18
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Member Group: Members Posts: 15 Joined: 23 Oct 2012 Member No.: 57,864 |
Does this mean I am one fortunate person and cannot be prosecuted? Not quite in the clear yet. ...expecting discussion about whether the 6 months to commence prosecution was met or not. (The court paperwork can arrive after this time frame) Although the alleged offence occurred on 30th January 2018, the NIP was received by 2nd February 2018 and completed a few days later. If court paperwork can arrive after the time frame than surely law has a time limit on this? |
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Mon, 13 Aug 2018 - 08:45
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#19
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Member Group: Members Posts: 1,864 Joined: 2 Aug 2016 Member No.: 86,040 |
It would appear that the cameras are set significantly higher than the "normal" threshold of 79mph, with it appearing to be roughly 95mph. I suppose if they are active they have to decide on a "this is taking the piss" level. I am unsure about that. My son got a 81 mph nip of an nsl stretch of smart M5. |
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Mon, 13 Aug 2018 - 09:16
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#20
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Member Group: Members Posts: 41,510 Joined: 25 Aug 2011 From: Planet Earth Member No.: 49,223 |
Although the alleged offence occurred on 30th January 2018, the NIP was received by 2nd February 2018 and completed a few days later. If court paperwork can arrive after the time frame than surely law has a time limit on this? Any prosecution has to commence within 6 months. That doesn't mean the defendant gets notification within 6 months. Previously the Police had to 'lay information' with the court within that time frame and the court would then send out the paperwork, usually within about 1 month. (So 7 months was not unusual) Nowadays, a different procedure is used (see here) but the net effect is about the same. You could contact them now to see if the matter has progressed - there's no risk in doing so. Otherwise, it could be another couple of weeks before you hear and you can check if everything is in order. All presuming they have the correct address and the post arrived of course. -------------------- RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it. |
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