BW Legal taking me to court, But it's not my car and I wasn't the driver |
BW Legal taking me to court, But it's not my car and I wasn't the driver |
Thu, 9 May 2019 - 12:33
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#1
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Member Group: Members Posts: 13 Joined: 9 May 2019 Member No.: 103,773 |
My mother was issued a parking ticket by NTC months ago. I knew she would just pay and as it was on a private rd that we are residents on and she was only there for a few minutes I took the ticket and said I would deal with it. I don't believe I ever confessed to being the owner or driver but did appeal the ticket which may turn out to have been a mistake I guess. I also spoke to the land owner as he had recently moved into the house which the land belongs to. I asked if he had ever given permission for NTC to operate on his land and he said he hadn't but had requested a parking permit, he also said that NTC had given hima ticket and he had paid up. I figured he was perhaps a little clueless so asked NTC for proof that they ad permission to operate on the land which they refused to do. This has now gone to small claims and I want to get advice on what people think the strength of my position is in the eyes of the law.
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Thu, 9 May 2019 - 12:33
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Thu, 9 May 2019 - 12:44
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#2
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Member Group: Members Posts: 4,126 Joined: 31 Jan 2018 Member No.: 96,238 |
I've just had a three year battle with BWL for a similar reason
They've eventually sent an email that they're closing the account and confirming by letter Still waiting for that letter and keeping everything safely filed in case their client changes its mind I would go for a hard defence : Deny that NTC has a contract with the current land-owner Deny that any party it contracted with had the authority to make such a contract Assert that any contract would be unlawful as derogation from grant Deny that you were the owner, registered keeper or driver of the car Deny that you were present at the location on that date Assert that the driver had an unconditional right to park Deny that NTC has incurred the additional costs Deny that the BWL costs can be recovered in Small Claims Court even if they had been incurred |
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Thu, 9 May 2019 - 13:25
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#3
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Member Group: Members Posts: 13 Joined: 9 May 2019 Member No.: 103,773 |
Thanks, didn't think they would take it this far tbh. I did actually speak briefly with the NTC employee as he left so I can't claim I wasn't there. I heard that they have to give 15mins before issuing a ticket, do you know if that could be an arguement?
And surely if you aren't the driver or owner they wouldn't have a leg to stand on. They don't know this part of my defense btw. I guess that by appealing you are accepting responsibility in some way so that is why they believe they have a case. As far as I know they haven't been to the DVLA and still believe I am the registered owner. |
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Thu, 9 May 2019 - 13:33
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#4
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Member Group: Members Posts: 17,088 Joined: 8 Mar 2013 Member No.: 60,457 |
No, If you are appealing then you are saying that they have no case.
So you have actually had claim form from Northampton? If you have then acknowledge the claim NOW on line using the details and password on the form. This gives you 33 days from the date of issue to get a defence to the court. Your defence will be as Redivi has listed, but expanded slightly. And put the not the owner, driver, keeper as the first item and why are they claiming against you. Hiding information from the other side is not a good idea and can reflect badly on you, you are not allowed to ambush in court. Tell the other side NOW about owner keeper driver thing and invite them to withdraw This post has been edited by ostell: Thu, 9 May 2019 - 13:36 |
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Thu, 9 May 2019 - 13:45
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#5
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Member Group: Members Posts: 13 Joined: 9 May 2019 Member No.: 103,773 |
I have had a letter from Nottingham and gave my defense omitting that I was not the registered owner or driver in hope they would back down without finding that out as if they did they may decide to pursue my mother. I have a "Notice of Proposed Allocation to the Small Claims Track" which I must return by 20th May with the option of mediation.
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Thu, 9 May 2019 - 14:12
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#6
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Member Group: Members Posts: 4,126 Joined: 31 Jan 2018 Member No.: 96,238 |
What on Earth made you think that BWL would back down?
So what did you send as a defence if you missed out the obvious point ? You're going to struggle now to say that you weren't the driver You probably won't be believed and, if you are, BWL will argue that it's an ambush and you should pay all the costs of the case |
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Thu, 9 May 2019 - 15:51
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#7
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Member Group: Members Posts: 13 Joined: 9 May 2019 Member No.: 103,773 |
My defense was that the owner of the road claimed he had not given the parking firm permission to operate on the road and when I asked them for evidence that they had permission to operate on the property they refused. Also that as resident we have prescriptive right of use of the road.
This post has been edited by blindmelonman: Thu, 9 May 2019 - 15:54 |
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Thu, 9 May 2019 - 15:57
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#8
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Member Group: Members Posts: 17,088 Joined: 8 Mar 2013 Member No.: 60,457 |
So tell them now about the driver keeper owner situation and suggest they withdraw as they have no case against you. No need to tell them anything else. And do it in writing with a certificate of posting.
It is too late for them to issue a valid Notice to Keeper to the keeper This post has been edited by ostell: Thu, 9 May 2019 - 16:01 |
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Thu, 9 May 2019 - 16:02
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#9
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Member Group: Members Posts: 13 Joined: 9 May 2019 Member No.: 103,773 |
OK, Should I send directly to the NTC or to BW Legal? Would it also be an idea to notify the courts of the change in my defense?
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Thu, 9 May 2019 - 16:48
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#10
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Member Group: Members Posts: 4,126 Joined: 31 Jan 2018 Member No.: 96,238 |
Communications are always through the solicitor when one has been engaged
You have to actually request BWL permission to amend your defence If they refuse, you must ask the court's permission I think the cost is £255 Don't know if NTC has to pay it if you win You could of course simply notify BWL and tell them that you have a witness to confirm that you weren't driving They can't then complain about an ambush BWL doesn't see any client documents before it issues claims With any luck it will reply either that you're liable as keeper or, if the driver isn't named, they can assume it was the keeper You can easily show you're not the registered keeper, making a bit of a hole in their case |
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Thu, 9 May 2019 - 17:17
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#11
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Member Group: Members Posts: 13 Joined: 9 May 2019 Member No.: 103,773 |
OK Great thanks for the advice everyone, feel I've mess this up a bit really but you live and learn. I think I'll start by calling the courts to see if it is possible to amend my defense then contact BW directly if not. I will probably phone and send a signed for letter.
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Thu, 9 May 2019 - 17:34
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#12
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Member Group: Members Posts: 4,126 Joined: 31 Jan 2018 Member No.: 96,238 |
Don't waste your money on signed-for
Use ordinary First Class and ask the Post Office for a free certificate of sending The Interpretation Act says that the letter is delivered two business days after posting unless BWL proves it wasn't Never phone a parking company or its solicitor There's a huge risk that you will give away information that will be used against you |
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Thu, 9 May 2019 - 17:45
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#13
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Member Group: Members Posts: 17,088 Joined: 8 Mar 2013 Member No.: 60,457 |
As you've been told if you want to amend your defence that's a £255 charge. The court will be happy to take your money
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Fri, 10 May 2019 - 08:27
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#14
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Member Group: Members Posts: 13 Joined: 9 May 2019 Member No.: 103,773 |
I just spoke tom the courts and they say it is fine for me to add to my defense at no cost at this stage. They will then send the info to BW Legal, lets see what happens!
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Fri, 10 May 2019 - 09:53
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#15
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Member Group: Members Posts: 17,088 Joined: 8 Mar 2013 Member No.: 60,457 |
So you got the name of the court person who gave you that advice? Send it by all means, as an addendum to your defence.
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Thu, 16 May 2019 - 08:35
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#16
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Member Group: Members Posts: 13 Joined: 9 May 2019 Member No.: 103,773 |
Does anyone know if I can request the details of the case that BW Legal hold, maybe through freedom of information or something?
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Thu, 16 May 2019 - 08:40
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#17
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Member Group: Members Posts: 41,503 Joined: 25 Aug 2011 From: Planet Earth Member No.: 49,223 |
Subject Access Request (under Data Protection Act).
Freedom of Information is for certain public bodies. -------------------- RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it. |
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Thu, 16 May 2019 - 10:44
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#18
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Member Group: Members Posts: 13 Joined: 9 May 2019 Member No.: 103,773 |
So would it be the courts or BW legal that I request the information from?
Having spoken to the courts in more depth it seems I have to pay £100 to change my defense which I will do if it will get them off my back.# |
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Thu, 16 May 2019 - 13:46
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#19
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Member Group: Members Posts: 17,088 Joined: 8 Mar 2013 Member No.: 60,457 |
You could try sending the information as an addendum to your defence, you could say you are not changing things but rather just adding more information to clarify the situation.
But write to BWL anyway and point out the situation. |
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Thu, 16 May 2019 - 15:53
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#20
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Member Group: Members Posts: 13 Joined: 9 May 2019 Member No.: 103,773 |
I've done that already but BW have written to say they still intend to go ahead, then asked me to call them, in their words:
Whilst writing it remains our clients position to bring matters to a conclusion and as such we would urge you to contact the number above to discuss the matter further. This post has been edited by blindmelonman: Thu, 16 May 2019 - 15:54 |
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Lo-Fi Version | Time is now: Thursday, 28th March 2024 - 12:16 |