PCN being in a bus lane |
PCN being in a bus lane |
Sun, 24 Jun 2018 - 06:42
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#1
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Member Group: Members Posts: 17 Joined: 31 Mar 2009 Member No.: 27,467 |
Hi, in Brighton there is a motorcycle parking bay in Queen Square that, due to changes in bus lanes over the years, is impossible to get to without entering a bus lane and impossible to get out of without making an illegal right turn or going into a bus lane. As it's only a short (35m) stretch of bus lane, I've continued to use it for many years, assuming that there must be some formal or informal exemption for bikes. The motorcycle bay is listed on the council website after all.
Anyway, the council has been installing lots more bus lane cameras and I've just got a PCN for Being in a Bus Lane. It being impossible to get to a motorcycle bay without entering a bus lane isn't one of the 3 grounds for challenge listed on the PCN! It's only £30 fine so would be easiest to just pay it but feel slightly aggrieved. I support bus lane cameras and if there had been any way to get to the parking spot, I would have taken. Many bikers use that bay so others presumably getting tickets too. Any advice appreciated. |
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Sun, 24 Jun 2018 - 06:42
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Sun, 24 Jun 2018 - 08:31
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#2
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Member Group: Members Posts: 13,735 Joined: 22 Oct 2007 Member No.: 14,720 |
As is usual, post all sides of PCN, and link to video.
If you know the bus lane is being monitored and enforced, best not to use it. Complain to council, maybe they're unaware of situation regarding access to m/c parking. -------------------- |
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Sun, 24 Jun 2018 - 08:50
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#3
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Member Group: Members Posts: 25,726 Joined: 28 Jun 2010 From: Area 51 Member No.: 38,559 |
It depends on how you cross the bus lane.
The video will tell. Could do with a Streetview link as well (and the PCN) There is a common exemption with bus lanes that allows vehicles to cross for access, such as to a car park. However I have never seen any specific point of crossing detailed, except by a break in white lines and that is often not present. Which means that it is taken to be allowed to cross in a reasonably direct manner. This doesn't mean that the driver has to drive up to the entrance outside the bus lane and then turn hard left but equally does not mean that you can enter the bus lane significantly ahead of the entrance. Same when leaving. You can be in the bus lane for as long as needed but no longer. Very subjective. There is also an unofficial length that you can be in a lane without enforcement....about 3-4 car lengths, 20 metres (IIRC) Less then that and an adjudicator MAY accept de minimis (too trivial to worry about) but councils probably wont unless they have it within their policies. |
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Sun, 24 Jun 2018 - 11:33
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#4
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Member Group: Closed Posts: 9,710 Joined: 28 Mar 2007 Member No.: 11,355 |
This is the order on the TPT site:-
https://tro.trafficpenaltytribunal.gov.uk/T...Hove/BH101B.pdf First, it pre-dates the Bus Lanes legislation of 2005. Second, it specifies exemptions for prohibited turns and a motorbike isn't an exemption. Third, it states at 4(3)(ii) you can cross a bus lane to access an adjacent street. I would certainly ask the Council if this is still the Order which relates to this area--just in case! Mick |
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Sun, 24 Jun 2018 - 19:48
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#5
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Member Group: Members Posts: 17 Joined: 31 Mar 2009 Member No.: 27,467 |
Thanks for the comments. It's not really a case of crossing the bus lane. You have to go along the short bus lane in D yke Road, or the long ones in North Street or Western Road to get to Queen Square. Coming out of Queen Square it is no right turn and bus lanes straight on and left. I went left and then took the first available exit once in North Street. That point is after the camera.
I attach PCN notice and google maps pic. Although its mainly a taxi rank, bikes and some private cars do go in to Queen Square so it must be permitted somehow. I have emailed the parking dept at B&H council to ask how to access the motorcycle bay. I sent this before Mick's reply but will take up his point depending on the reply. This post has been edited by davidbright: Sun, 24 Jun 2018 - 19:50
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Sun, 24 Jun 2018 - 19:57
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#6
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Member Group: Members Posts: 23,582 Joined: 12 Feb 2013 From: London Member No.: 59,924 |
As a Brightonian myself I object to the censorship of D y k e Road! May the devil take the system.
Seriously, looking at GSV is seems that some changes are very recent as GSV shows a left and right turn out of Queen Square are OK. It may be that they've just forgotten the bike bay while taxis are exempt. There must be a solid appeal here. https://www.google.com/maps/@50.8240068,-0....3312!8i6656 This post has been edited by stamfordman: Sun, 24 Jun 2018 - 20:00 |
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Wed, 27 Jun 2018 - 20:35
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#7
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Member Group: Members Posts: 17 Joined: 31 Mar 2009 Member No.: 27,467 |
OK so, buoyed by the comments on here, I'm going to challenge the ticket!
If I put something like this: Tick the "Contravention did not occur" box. Does that seem sensible? |
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Wed, 27 Jun 2018 - 20:56
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#8
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Member Group: Members Posts: 23,582 Joined: 12 Feb 2013 From: London Member No.: 59,924 |
Looks good to me - as long as the local knowledge is sound. Been a while since I've been down there. Make sure you file within the discount period - but you're only punting £30 if you lose it.
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Mon, 2 Jul 2018 - 19:22
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#9
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Member Group: Members Posts: 17 Joined: 31 Mar 2009 Member No.: 27,467 |
I've appealed. Auto-reply says, "There is currently a backlog but we hope to be able to respond within 10-12 weeks."!
This post has been edited by davidbright: Mon, 2 Jul 2018 - 19:23 |
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Tue, 18 Sep 2018 - 17:51
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#10
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Member Group: Members Posts: 17 Joined: 31 Mar 2009 Member No.: 27,467 |
So, just got a letter from Brighton and Hove Parking Services this week cancelling the PCN "due to technical difficulties unrelated to your enquiry"!
Which still leaves me not knowing whether there is any legal way for a motorcyclist to get to or from a council approved parking bay. I have replied but not going to hold my breath. |
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Tue, 18 Sep 2018 - 18:12
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#11
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Member Group: Members Posts: 20,916 Joined: 22 Apr 2012 Member No.: 54,455 |
Raise an official complaint with Brighton council at their failure to answer your question re the parking bay. I'd be interested to see what prestidigitation they employ in their answer..
Raise an official complaint with Brighton council at their failure to answer your question re the parking bay. I'd be interested to see what prestidigitation they employ in their answer.. |
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