PePiPoo Helping the motorist get justice Support health workers

Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

Caught 'driving' on the phone - Please Help!
Bosch164
post Wed, 12 Dec 2018 - 17:19
Post #1


New Member


Group: Members
Posts: 8
Joined: 12 Dec 2018
Member No.: 101,400



Hi

Let me please explain:

Recently I was parked up at a red traffic light and briefly went on my phone (opened a notification, and read it (15ish seconds). As I went on my phone a police car pulled up next to me and flashed me with a light. They proceeded to ask if I was on my device and I said that I was and apologised.

They asked me to pull over around the corner and we discussed what happened and the informed me I would receive 200 pound fine + 6 points. (I have never been fined/had points before)


Some more information:

-I have had my driving licence since Aug 2013 (0 fines)
-I am South African and had a SA licence since June this year until I traded it for a UK licence.
- I have had my UK licence since June 2018 (0 points)


- I have a few questions!

I know that if you have had your licence for less than 2 years you are only allowed 6 points (I have had my Uk licence for less that 2 years, but have had a drivers for more than 5)

I also received my fine/info in the post and I would like someone to make sense of it please! are they saying I just need to pay a fine or are they saying I have lost my licence + fine??

Please help,

Sorry if this isnt very clear





This post has been edited by Fredd: Wed, 12 Dec 2018 - 20:11
Reason for edit: Irrelevant link removed

Attached thumbnail(s)
Attached Image
 
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
 
Start new topic
Replies (1 - 13)
Advertisement
post Wed, 12 Dec 2018 - 17:19
Post #


Advertise here!









Go to the top of the page
 
Quote Post
Fredd
post Wed, 12 Dec 2018 - 17:27
Post #2


Webmaster
Group Icon

Group: Root Admin
Posts: 8,205
Joined: 30 Mar 2003
From: Wokingham, UK
Member No.: 2



@Bosch164: you've left your full name and address in that photo.


--------------------
Regards,
Fredd

__________________________________________________________________________
Pepipoo relies on you
to keep this site running!
Donate to Pepipoo now using your
Visa, Mastercard, debit card or PayPal account
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Bosch164
post Wed, 12 Dec 2018 - 17:29
Post #3


New Member


Group: Members
Posts: 8
Joined: 12 Dec 2018
Member No.: 101,400



Fixed!!!
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Jlc
post Wed, 12 Dec 2018 - 18:18
Post #4


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 41,510
Joined: 25 Aug 2011
From: Planet Earth
Member No.: 49,223



You have been offered a fixed penalty. There are conditions to accept it - you must pay the fine and send them your licence.

Your licence will be returned.

However, it’s the DVLA that will revoke your licence by writing to you if are considered a new driver. (I believe it will be revoked in these circumstances)


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
PASTMYBEST
post Wed, 12 Dec 2018 - 18:49
Post #5


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 26,655
Joined: 6 Nov 2014
Member No.: 74,048



I don't know the answer but it would seem pertinent. If the UK license is revoked is it an offense to drive using the SA or any other license?


--------------------
All advice is given freely. It is given without guarantee and responsibility for its use rests with the user
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
notmeatloaf
post Wed, 12 Dec 2018 - 19:37
Post #6


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 3,306
Joined: 4 Mar 2017
Member No.: 90,659



The New Drivers Act only applies to people who have passed a UK driving test.

In your case you swapped your licence from your SA one because the UK recognises the test standards to be equivalent. As you never passed a UK driving test the 6 points probationary period doesn't apply to you.

Simply follow the steps in the letter and you will receive your licence back. On the off chance the DVLA don't recognise this distinction, what with struggling with unusual circimstances, then you will need to poke them a bit.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
southpaw82
post Wed, 12 Dec 2018 - 19:53
Post #7


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 33,610
Joined: 2 Apr 2008
From: Not in the UK
Member No.: 18,483



QUOTE (notmeatloaf @ Wed, 12 Dec 2018 - 19:37) *
As you never passed a UK driving test the 6 points probationary period doesn't apply to you.

He’s never passed a test to which the NDA applies, so far as I can tell (it encompasses more than just the UK).


--------------------
Moderator

Any comments made do not constitute legal advice and should not be relied upon. No lawyer/client relationship should be assumed nor should any duty of care be owed.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
andy_foster
post Wed, 12 Dec 2018 - 20:03
Post #8


Member
Group Icon

Group: Life Member
Posts: 24,214
Joined: 9 Sep 2004
From: Reading
Member No.: 1,624



Personally, I would be minded to argue that you were not driving for the purposes of the relevant legislation. The offence, which in the context of motoring offences is a relatively serious one, carrying an obligatory endorsement of 6 points, is clearly intended to address the clear and obvious danger caused by those actively controlling a moving vehicle whilst using a hand-held mobile phone.

There is a qualified right to communicate without interference by public authority under Article 10 of the ECHR. It is qualified by measures prescribed by law and which are necessary to achieve certain objectives, such as protecting the safety and rights of others. In short, if giving you 6 points for checking notifications is necessary (proportionate) to the potential danger caused, then the qualification wins and the ECHR does not protect you from interference with your right to communicate. However, if giving you 6 points for at worst risking holding up traffic behind you for a few seconds is held not to be proportionate, no offence was committed as the ECHR/HRA would require the definition of "driving" to be read sufficiently narrowly to exclude sitting at the lights.

If you were to fight this and lose, you would get the same 6 points, a fine based on your income (fine capped at £1000 IIRC) and prosecution costs of up to £620.


--------------------
Andy

Some people think that I make them feel stupid. To be fair, they deserve most of the credit.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
NewJudge
post Wed, 12 Dec 2018 - 21:43
Post #9


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 4,746
Joined: 29 Oct 2008
Member No.: 23,623



QUOTE (andy_foster @ Wed, 12 Dec 2018 - 20:03) *
Personally, I would be minded to argue that you were not driving for the purposes of the relevant legislation.

Personally I wouldn't. From the .gov.uk website on the subject of "Using a phone or a sat nav when driving":

The law still applies to you if you’re:

- stopped at traffic lights
- queuing in traffic
- supervising a learner driver


You may be able to successfully argue that you have a right to use your phone under Article 10 (though personally I doubt it). However, I believe you would be most unlikely to succeed in the Magistrates' Court or even the Crown Court at appeal.

This post has been edited by NewJudge: Thu, 13 Dec 2018 - 08:57
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Bosch164
post Wed, 12 Dec 2018 - 21:52
Post #10


New Member


Group: Members
Posts: 8
Joined: 12 Dec 2018
Member No.: 101,400



The only other thing I had questions about; if my car is equipped with 'Start/Stop' would that mean that my car was not actually running at the time of the incident and therefore would not be considered driving.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
NewJudge
post Wed, 12 Dec 2018 - 22:06
Post #11


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 4,746
Joined: 29 Oct 2008
Member No.: 23,623



QUOTE (Bosch164 @ Wed, 12 Dec 2018 - 21:52) *
The only other thing I had questions about; if my car is equipped with 'Start/Stop' would that mean that my car was not actually running at the time of the incident and therefore would not be considered driving.

If you were stationary at the lights you should be aware what was going on around you and be making preparations to move off when the lights changed. Using your phone at the time may distract you from that. The fact that your engine was not running is immaterial. You could argue that if you were driving an electric vehicle (where the engine is never running when stationary) then the same applies and I do not believe it would be accepted.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Churchmouse
post Thu, 13 Dec 2018 - 09:50
Post #12


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 2,356
Joined: 30 Jun 2008
From: Landan
Member No.: 20,731



QUOTE (NewJudge @ Wed, 12 Dec 2018 - 22:06) *
QUOTE (Bosch164 @ Wed, 12 Dec 2018 - 21:52) *
The only other thing I had questions about; if my car is equipped with 'Start/Stop' would that mean that my car was not actually running at the time of the incident and therefore would not be considered driving.

If you were stationary at the lights you should be aware what was going on around you and be making preparations to move off when the lights changed. Using your phone at the time may distract you from that. The fact that your engine was not running is immaterial. You could argue that if you were driving an electric vehicle (where the engine is never running when stationary) then the same applies and I do not believe it would be accepted.

Not moving off "promptly" is certainly not the hazard the mobile phone legislation was intended to combat, but the courts and the government are transfixed by easy bright line tests, so fighting this would require money, effort and would entail risk. For six points, someone will do it, but not this OP, I think...

--Churchmouse
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Slapdash
post Thu, 13 Dec 2018 - 11:30
Post #13


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 1,864
Joined: 2 Aug 2016
Member No.: 86,040



Op, what do you mean by "went on my phone". ?

Did you pick it up, or did you merely touch the screen to open and read a notification.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
baroudeur
post Thu, 13 Dec 2018 - 12:37
Post #14


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 938
Joined: 24 Sep 2014
Member No.: 73,212



QUOTE (PASTMYBEST @ Wed, 12 Dec 2018 - 18:49) *
I don't know the answer but it would seem pertinent. If the UK license is revoked is it an offense to drive using the SA or any other license?



The SA licence had to be surrendered (exchanged) for the UK licence so the OP no longer has it.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post

Reply to this topicStart new topic
1 User(s) are reading this topic (1 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members:

 



Advertisement

Advertise here!

RSS Lo-Fi Version Time is now: Friday, 29th March 2024 - 05:22
Pepipoo uses cookies. You can find details of the cookies we use here along with links to information on how to manage them.
Please click the button to accept our cookies and hide this message. We’ll also assume that you’re happy to accept them if you continue to use the site.
IPS Driver Error

IPS Driver Error

There appears to be an error with the database.
You can try to refresh the page by clicking here