Caught 'driving' on the phone - Please Help! |
Caught 'driving' on the phone - Please Help! |
Wed, 12 Dec 2018 - 17:19
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#1
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New Member Group: Members Posts: 8 Joined: 12 Dec 2018 Member No.: 101,400 |
Hi
Let me please explain: Recently I was parked up at a red traffic light and briefly went on my phone (opened a notification, and read it (15ish seconds). As I went on my phone a police car pulled up next to me and flashed me with a light. They proceeded to ask if I was on my device and I said that I was and apologised. They asked me to pull over around the corner and we discussed what happened and the informed me I would receive 200 pound fine + 6 points. (I have never been fined/had points before) Some more information: -I have had my driving licence since Aug 2013 (0 fines) -I am South African and had a SA licence since June this year until I traded it for a UK licence. - I have had my UK licence since June 2018 (0 points) - I have a few questions! I know that if you have had your licence for less than 2 years you are only allowed 6 points (I have had my Uk licence for less that 2 years, but have had a drivers for more than 5) I also received my fine/info in the post and I would like someone to make sense of it please! are they saying I just need to pay a fine or are they saying I have lost my licence + fine?? Please help, Sorry if this isnt very clear This post has been edited by Fredd: Wed, 12 Dec 2018 - 20:11
Reason for edit: Irrelevant link removed
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Wed, 12 Dec 2018 - 17:19
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Wed, 12 Dec 2018 - 17:27
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#2
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Webmaster Group: Root Admin Posts: 8,205 Joined: 30 Mar 2003 From: Wokingham, UK Member No.: 2 |
@Bosch164: you've left your full name and address in that photo.
-------------------- Regards,
Fredd __________________________________________________________________________
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Wed, 12 Dec 2018 - 17:29
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#3
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New Member Group: Members Posts: 8 Joined: 12 Dec 2018 Member No.: 101,400 |
Fixed!!!
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Wed, 12 Dec 2018 - 18:18
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#4
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Member Group: Members Posts: 41,510 Joined: 25 Aug 2011 From: Planet Earth Member No.: 49,223 |
You have been offered a fixed penalty. There are conditions to accept it - you must pay the fine and send them your licence.
Your licence will be returned. However, it’s the DVLA that will revoke your licence by writing to you if are considered a new driver. (I believe it will be revoked in these circumstances) -------------------- RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it. |
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Wed, 12 Dec 2018 - 18:49
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#5
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Member Group: Members Posts: 26,655 Joined: 6 Nov 2014 Member No.: 74,048 |
I don't know the answer but it would seem pertinent. If the UK license is revoked is it an offense to drive using the SA or any other license?
-------------------- All advice is given freely. It is given without guarantee and responsibility for its use rests with the user
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Wed, 12 Dec 2018 - 19:37
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#6
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Member Group: Members Posts: 3,306 Joined: 4 Mar 2017 Member No.: 90,659 |
The New Drivers Act only applies to people who have passed a UK driving test.
In your case you swapped your licence from your SA one because the UK recognises the test standards to be equivalent. As you never passed a UK driving test the 6 points probationary period doesn't apply to you. Simply follow the steps in the letter and you will receive your licence back. On the off chance the DVLA don't recognise this distinction, what with struggling with unusual circimstances, then you will need to poke them a bit. |
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Wed, 12 Dec 2018 - 19:53
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#7
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Member Group: Members Posts: 33,610 Joined: 2 Apr 2008 From: Not in the UK Member No.: 18,483 |
As you never passed a UK driving test the 6 points probationary period doesn't apply to you. He’s never passed a test to which the NDA applies, so far as I can tell (it encompasses more than just the UK). -------------------- Moderator
Any comments made do not constitute legal advice and should not be relied upon. No lawyer/client relationship should be assumed nor should any duty of care be owed. |
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Wed, 12 Dec 2018 - 20:03
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#8
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Member Group: Life Member Posts: 24,214 Joined: 9 Sep 2004 From: Reading Member No.: 1,624 |
Personally, I would be minded to argue that you were not driving for the purposes of the relevant legislation. The offence, which in the context of motoring offences is a relatively serious one, carrying an obligatory endorsement of 6 points, is clearly intended to address the clear and obvious danger caused by those actively controlling a moving vehicle whilst using a hand-held mobile phone.
There is a qualified right to communicate without interference by public authority under Article 10 of the ECHR. It is qualified by measures prescribed by law and which are necessary to achieve certain objectives, such as protecting the safety and rights of others. In short, if giving you 6 points for checking notifications is necessary (proportionate) to the potential danger caused, then the qualification wins and the ECHR does not protect you from interference with your right to communicate. However, if giving you 6 points for at worst risking holding up traffic behind you for a few seconds is held not to be proportionate, no offence was committed as the ECHR/HRA would require the definition of "driving" to be read sufficiently narrowly to exclude sitting at the lights. If you were to fight this and lose, you would get the same 6 points, a fine based on your income (fine capped at £1000 IIRC) and prosecution costs of up to £620. -------------------- Andy
Some people think that I make them feel stupid. To be fair, they deserve most of the credit. |
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Wed, 12 Dec 2018 - 21:43
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#9
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Member Group: Members Posts: 4,746 Joined: 29 Oct 2008 Member No.: 23,623 |
Personally, I would be minded to argue that you were not driving for the purposes of the relevant legislation. Personally I wouldn't. From the .gov.uk website on the subject of "Using a phone or a sat nav when driving": The law still applies to you if you’re: - stopped at traffic lights - queuing in traffic - supervising a learner driver You may be able to successfully argue that you have a right to use your phone under Article 10 (though personally I doubt it). However, I believe you would be most unlikely to succeed in the Magistrates' Court or even the Crown Court at appeal. This post has been edited by NewJudge: Thu, 13 Dec 2018 - 08:57 |
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Wed, 12 Dec 2018 - 21:52
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#10
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New Member Group: Members Posts: 8 Joined: 12 Dec 2018 Member No.: 101,400 |
The only other thing I had questions about; if my car is equipped with 'Start/Stop' would that mean that my car was not actually running at the time of the incident and therefore would not be considered driving.
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Wed, 12 Dec 2018 - 22:06
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#11
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Member Group: Members Posts: 4,746 Joined: 29 Oct 2008 Member No.: 23,623 |
The only other thing I had questions about; if my car is equipped with 'Start/Stop' would that mean that my car was not actually running at the time of the incident and therefore would not be considered driving. If you were stationary at the lights you should be aware what was going on around you and be making preparations to move off when the lights changed. Using your phone at the time may distract you from that. The fact that your engine was not running is immaterial. You could argue that if you were driving an electric vehicle (where the engine is never running when stationary) then the same applies and I do not believe it would be accepted. |
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Thu, 13 Dec 2018 - 09:50
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#12
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Member Group: Members Posts: 2,356 Joined: 30 Jun 2008 From: Landan Member No.: 20,731 |
The only other thing I had questions about; if my car is equipped with 'Start/Stop' would that mean that my car was not actually running at the time of the incident and therefore would not be considered driving. If you were stationary at the lights you should be aware what was going on around you and be making preparations to move off when the lights changed. Using your phone at the time may distract you from that. The fact that your engine was not running is immaterial. You could argue that if you were driving an electric vehicle (where the engine is never running when stationary) then the same applies and I do not believe it would be accepted. Not moving off "promptly" is certainly not the hazard the mobile phone legislation was intended to combat, but the courts and the government are transfixed by easy bright line tests, so fighting this would require money, effort and would entail risk. For six points, someone will do it, but not this OP, I think... --Churchmouse |
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Thu, 13 Dec 2018 - 11:30
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#13
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Member Group: Members Posts: 1,864 Joined: 2 Aug 2016 Member No.: 86,040 |
Op, what do you mean by "went on my phone". ?
Did you pick it up, or did you merely touch the screen to open and read a notification. |
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Thu, 13 Dec 2018 - 12:37
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#14
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Member Group: Members Posts: 938 Joined: 24 Sep 2014 Member No.: 73,212 |
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