Alleged Driving In Bus Lane PCN - Manchester: Oxford Street |
Alleged Driving In Bus Lane PCN - Manchester: Oxford Street |
Tue, 2 Apr 2019 - 13:51
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#1
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Member Group: Members Posts: 51 Joined: 2 Apr 2019 Member No.: 103,232 |
Hi,
This is my first time on this forum and first Bus lane PCN so would appreciate some help and advice. Also Firstly id like to ask others is it worth it, in that I mean its £30 (lot of money esp if not at fault) but they can increase it to £90 which is lot more. If you make an appeal will they make a decision before 14 days, so in case its not accepted youre not paying £60 or £90? How long does it normally take and if you appeal will they put a hold on the fine amount? Case: I've been issued with one penalty charge notice in relation to an alledged bus lane contravention on the notorious Oxford Street in Manchester city centre. As shown in the image. It happened a few days ago. Just got the letters. Ive driven down this route so many times before for work and never had this problem. But this was prior to 2016 and i think these bus lane things there are relatively new? I was using Tom Tom to get somewhere. The road was busy and it was dark, there were some road works i think and lots of people etc.. I was surrounded by busses there were some double deckers. As you can see in the picture in the image, directly in front of me was a bus aswell. I cant remember seeing any bus lane signs very possibly due to obstructions and lack of awareness due to just following Tom Tom. Also i noticed in the cctv image and Google Street View that there is no Red highlighted Bus Lane marking like I see where we live. We have bus lanes here in my town and you dont even need any signs as the bus lane is clearly marked as a red lane with bus lane written on it or "busses only". Any help would be appreciated, thank you. I've attached the two scans if helpful. There have been lots I assume of similar cases on this route, so can i ask those who have appealed should I just pay the £30 or appeal. This post has been edited by rf680: Tue, 2 Apr 2019 - 13:54 |
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Tue, 2 Apr 2019 - 13:51
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Wed, 22 May 2019 - 09:57
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#41
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Member Group: Members Posts: 51 Joined: 2 Apr 2019 Member No.: 103,232 |
I understand that and thanks, its just it seems to be dragging on. Here is the draft appeal to tribunal. QUOTE Dear Sir or Madam, Penalty Charge Notice Number: MC4 I am writing to formally challenge the above Penalty Charge Notice of alleged bus lane contraventions (Penalty Charge Notices Numbers MC42230160) on the grounds that this contravention did not occur due to inadequate signage / warnings, enhanced further due to presence of obstructions by other vehicles, namely a big bus, on the road. As you can see in the attached image, directly in front of me was a bus, starting way before the sign and remained so during and after driving past the signs. I sincerely do not recollect seeing any warning signs about this 'bus lane' which is a continuation of a big long major road, due to being obstructed by buses and the lack of road markings. I beleive the reason that this was made into a 'bus lane' was to improve the flow of public transport and possibly decrease congestion, not as a method to extort money from unsuspecting drivers. I also agree that some drivers my knowingly abuse this restriction and drive down this 'bus lane' deliberately however I am not one of these drivers and would not knowingly drive down a Bus only lane. As you can see in the CCTV image and Google Street View there are in fact no road markings stating that the road is in fact, a 'bus lane'. Where we live we have bus lanes and you don't even need any signs as the bus lane is clearly marked as a red lane with bus lane written on it or "Busses Only". Their sign does not declare that this as a bus lane and its placement suggests that the rules stated are in fact for the cycle lane and/or the bus stops. Therefore although their signs may well comply with the Traffic Signs Regulations and General Directions 2016, they do not comply with regulation 18 of The Local Authorities' Traffic Orders (Procedure) (England and Wales) Regulations 1996 and for that reason the alleged contravention did not occur. Also in the Notice of Rejection they state this road doesnt need to be marked as a bus lane because they say its a 'bus gate' not a bus lane. But if its not a bus lane then there cant possibly be a bus lance contravention. Another point I would like to raise is that after I made the first appeal to the council online I was sent an email confirmation, but then before they made a decision they served a Charge Certificate. I then had to appeal again from scratch as the appeal was made on their website and there was no copy of it. After this they sent Notice of Rejection. That's fine apart from the last point I will draft something but have 3 to do over the weekend bump on Wednesday if I have not done anything bumping..ok im waiting till friday night then il prob just send this as the appeal This post has been edited by rf680: Thu, 23 May 2019 - 09:41 |
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Sat, 25 May 2019 - 19:34
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#42
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Member Group: Members Posts: 51 Joined: 2 Apr 2019 Member No.: 103,232 |
OH well made the appeal
Your appeal has been submitted and allocated reference number MC*********** What happens next: The details of your appeal will be checked and confirmed. The Authority will then get an opportunity to upload their evidence for this appeal. The Traffic Penalty Tribunal will contact you via email with updates, or when we need you to do something. What you need to do: Keep an eye out for any emails relating to your appeal and follow the instructions given. You can access your appeal at any time by logging into this portal. Here you can see the current status of your appeal and check any actions required by you. You can also add more evidence to support your claim if you wish by selecting the Evidence tab at the top of the page. If you don’t hear from us within 48 hours, please email help@trafficpenaltytribunal.gov.uk or call us on 0800 160 1999. |
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Sat, 25 May 2019 - 20:01
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#43
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Member Group: Members Posts: 38,006 Joined: 3 Dec 2010 Member No.: 42,618 |
To be honest I wouldn't worry, the tribunal is allowing all appeals at this location at the moment.
-------------------- If you would like assistance with a penalty charge notice, please post a thread on https://www.ftla.uk/index.php
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Wed, 29 May 2019 - 11:47
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#44
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Member Group: Members Posts: 51 Joined: 2 Apr 2019 Member No.: 103,232 |
received a response:
QUOTE CODE Your appeal has been registered and the authority has confirmed the details. What happens next? They will now decide whether to contest your appeal. How long will this take? We have asked them to do this within 14 days. What happens if the authority decides not to contest the appeal? If the authority decides not to contest your appeal you will be notified that you have won the appeal and have nothing to pay. What happens if the authority decides to contest the appeal? If the authority contests your appeal they will then upload any evidence into your case file. We will send you an email if this happens and you will be able to log on, view their evidence and comment on it. You will also be able to ask for a telephone hearing if you wish. This post has been edited by rf680: Wed, 29 May 2019 - 13:11 |
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Fri, 31 May 2019 - 14:41
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#45
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Member Group: Members Posts: 51 Joined: 2 Apr 2019 Member No.: 103,232 |
Update:
Got reply to day from tribunal: QUOTE The authority uploaded its evidence on your case. There are a couple of actions for you to take now. 1. Review the authority evidence Please review the evidence. You have 7 days to add your own evidence and comments if you wish to do so. 2. Confirm how you wish your case to be decided by choosing ‘select decision options’ There are two ways for this decision to be made: Option A: I would like the adjudicator to decide my case now: The appeal will be decided by the adjudicator without a telephone hearing. Select ‘request decision’. Option B: I would like a telephone hearing: Tell us about your preferred times and select ‘submit hearing request’. We will then contact you to arrange a date and time for a telephone hearing. Please note that if you do not make a request within 7 days of this email the decision will be made without a telephone hearing. Can I see how my case is progressing online? On the tribunal site theyve added lots of evidence and copies of my previous appeals Please advise This post has been edited by rf680: Fri, 31 May 2019 - 14:46 |
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Fri, 31 May 2019 - 15:16
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#46
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Member Group: Members Posts: 4,308 Joined: 9 May 2014 Member No.: 70,515 |
Please confirm your appeal was as post #41.
Amongst the Council's evidence, you should find a 1-3 page summary of the reasons the Council think the appeal should be refused. Please post that here. |
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Fri, 31 May 2019 - 15:19
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#47
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Member Group: Members Posts: 51 Joined: 2 Apr 2019 Member No.: 103,232 |
Here is the tribunal appeal:
QUOTE Dear Sir or Madam,
Penalty Charge Notice Number: MC4 I am writing to formally challenge the above Penalty Charge Notice of alleged bus lane contraventions (Penalty Charge Notices Numbers MC42230160) on the grounds that this contravention did not occur due to inadequate signage / warnings, enhanced further due to presence of obstructions by other vehicles, namely a big bus, on the road. As you can see in the attached image, directly in front of me was a bus, starting way before the sign and remained so during and after driving past the signs. I sincerely do not recollect seeing any warning signs about this 'bus lane' which is a continuation of a big long major road, due to being obstructed by buses and the lack of road markings. I beleive the reason that this was made into a 'bus lane' was to improve the flow of public transport and possibly decrease congestion, not as a method to extort money from unsuspecting drivers. I also agree that some drivers my knowingly abuse this restriction and drive down this 'bus lane' deliberately however I am not one of these drivers and would not knowingly drive down a Bus only lane. As you can see in the CCTV image and Google Street View there are in fact no road markings stating that the road is in fact, a 'bus lane'. Where we live we have bus lanes and you don't even need any signs as the bus lane is clearly marked as a red lane with bus lane written on it or "Busses Only". Their sign does not declare that this as a bus lane and its placement suggests that the rules stated are in fact for the cycle lane and/or the bus stops. Therefore although their signs may well comply with the Traffic Signs Regulations and General Directions 2016, they do not comply with regulation 18 of The Local Authorities' Traffic Orders (Procedure) (England and Wales) Regulations 1996 and for that reason the alleged contravention did not occur. Another point I would like to raise is that after I made the first appeal to the council online I was sent an email confirmation, but then before they made a decision they served a Charge Certificate. I then had to appeal again from scratch as the appeal was made on their website and there was no copy of it. After this they sent Notice of Rejection. |
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Fri, 31 May 2019 - 15:32
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#48
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Member Group: Members Posts: 51 Joined: 2 Apr 2019 Member No.: 103,232 |
not sure what you mean is this wha tyou need to see:
http://oi65.tinypic.com/2hztrgo.jpg and there was this: https://www.dropbox.com/s/9c6ar8olgvtkdz0/C2681.pdf?dl=0 the other stuff was copy of emails i sent to them, the first appeal, copies of the actual pcn, and links to cctv footage |
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Fri, 31 May 2019 - 22:22
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#49
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Member Group: Members Posts: 38,006 Joined: 3 Dec 2010 Member No.: 42,618 |
Upload this to the tribunal website http://bit.ly/2TKSfyu and ask the tribunal to take that decision into account.
-------------------- If you would like assistance with a penalty charge notice, please post a thread on https://www.ftla.uk/index.php
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Sat, 1 Jun 2019 - 10:39
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#50
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Member Group: Members Posts: 51 Joined: 2 Apr 2019 Member No.: 103,232 |
Thanks done that, also uploaded the charge certificate they sent in error
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Thu, 6 Jun 2019 - 09:37
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#51
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Member Group: Members Posts: 51 Joined: 2 Apr 2019 Member No.: 103,232 |
Upload this to the tribunal website http://bit.ly/2TKSfyu and ask the tribunal to take that decision into account. how long does the decision take? still waiting. |
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Thu, 6 Jun 2019 - 21:32
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#52
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Member Group: Members Posts: 38,006 Joined: 3 Dec 2010 Member No.: 42,618 |
You could call the tribunal and ask, it shouldn't take this long.
-------------------- If you would like assistance with a penalty charge notice, please post a thread on https://www.ftla.uk/index.php
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Fri, 7 Jun 2019 - 16:44
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#53
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Member Group: Members Posts: 51 Joined: 2 Apr 2019 Member No.: 103,232 |
You could call the tribunal and ask, it shouldn't take this long. Hi received a response and outcome today. QUOTE There is nothing to pay and the authority will cancel the penalty charge This is because the alleged bus lane contravention did not occur. Costs The regulations say that costs are not usually awarded. There are exceptions; the main one is if the adjudicator considers that the authority (or you) were wholly unreasonable in their approach to the case Appreciate the help and advice provided by everyone here so thanks to you. Would it help others if i posted the outcome fully here? This post has been edited by rf680: Fri, 7 Jun 2019 - 17:06 |
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Sat, 8 Jun 2019 - 16:52
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#54
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Member Group: Members Posts: 38,006 Joined: 3 Dec 2010 Member No.: 42,618 |
It would be interesting to see the full reasons.
-------------------- If you would like assistance with a penalty charge notice, please post a thread on https://www.ftla.uk/index.php
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