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foreign registered cars and NTOs, Threads merged
frenchgooner
post Wed, 11 Sep 2019 - 19:22
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Hi,

My daughter recently borrowed our French registered mini whilst staying in London for a few months. The car is correctly registered to us as French residents, I remain the owner and she is insured and fully legal to drive the car.

Recently the car was removed by LBWF to the car pound whilst legally parked. Upon attendance at the car pound she was advised the car was removed as there are unpaid parking tickets. She was then advised there are 4 parking notices against the car, and one offence of being partially in a yellow box at a junction. As no physical ticket was issued both she and I had no knowledge of these offences. She was then forced to pay 650£ (450£ for the offences and £200 for the removal) to get the car back. She asked for the details of the offences at the pound, and was given the PCN numbers, but when we tried to look these up on the LBWF website, we could not access any details and the cases were marked as closed ( I presume as we had paid to get the car back).

I am annoyed as the car was removed for reasons we knew nothing about, no notices to owner was ever sent, and we have been denied the opportunity to contest or even review these offences.

Whilst I recognise the LBWF would have difficulty getting our French details for the notice to owner, this is not my fault. The EU Cross border enforcment directive exists for just this reason, but the UK does not use it. However surely the procedure is to issue a NTO, and If you do not do so that is a failure of procedure.

I have emailed them several times, but they have responded once and took 21 days to do so, and then completely failed to respond to any of my questions or requests.

Should I take the matter to the small claims court?





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post Wed, 11 Sep 2019 - 19:22
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cp8759
post Mon, 2 Dec 2019 - 14:24
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I was wondering what had happened to this case. To be honest, we're in somewhat uncharted wasters because we've not come across this scenario before. In essence you have two viable options:

1) Raise a formal complaint under the council's complaints procedure, on the basis that you've been denied your rights to appeal to the adjudicator, as per https://walthamforest.gov.uk/content/compla...ts-and-comments - but this will need to be framed very carefully around the procedural issues alone, you cannot challenge the substantive issue.

2) Write to the London Tribunals, and ask the adjudicator to register an appal on that basis that your representations have been rejected, again this will need to be framed very carefully because the appeal would technically be out of time.

Personally I'd be inclined to progress both in parallel.


--------------------
I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
No, I am not a lawyer.
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disgrunt
post Mon, 2 Dec 2019 - 16:56
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Surely if that is the full “notice of rejection” then after 56 days the representation has been accepted?
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cp8759
post Mon, 2 Dec 2019 - 16:59
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QUOTE (disgrunt @ Mon, 2 Dec 2019 - 16:56) *
Surely if that is the full “notice of rejection” then after 56 days the representation has been accepted?

Why is that?


--------------------
I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
No, I am not a lawyer.
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disgrunt
post Mon, 2 Dec 2019 - 21:40
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QUOTE (cp8759 @ Mon, 2 Dec 2019 - 17:59) *
QUOTE (disgrunt @ Mon, 2 Dec 2019 - 16:56) *
Surely if that is the full “notice of rejection” then after 56 days the representation has been accepted?

Why is that?


I'm assuming the OP sent representations for all 4 PCNs appealing them and that reply only mentions 1. If we accept it is a NOR then it follows it is a NOR for only the PCN mentioned, therefore after 56 days the representation for the others is accepted.

However, it is far from clear whether that is a NOR as it doesn't say it is and it doesn't say that the representations have been rejected. It might say they were in the right, most NORs do, but it doesn't say the representation has been rejected, or that they have decided not to cancel the PCN.

Mind you that all assumes the OP did actually appeal all 4 PCNs, I can see the email asking to appeal did, but I can't see the OPs actual appeal
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cp8759
post Tue, 3 Dec 2019 - 14:19
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Well we'll have to wait for frenchgooner to come back and tell us.


--------------------
I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
No, I am not a lawyer.
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frenchgooner
post Fri, 6 Dec 2019 - 17:37
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hi,
sorry for the delay, been working away. for a few days. I sent the letter as detailed by cp8759, and listed all 4 pcn numbers. it was sent 4th nov, I've had no response.
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cp8759
post Sat, 7 Dec 2019 - 20:22
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I think the easiest way to pursue this would be via the council's corporate complaints process. The complaints process at https://www.walthamforest.gov.uk/node/753 explains:

Complaints about the issue of a Penalty Charge Notice (PCN) by the Parking Control Service and the recovery process, except for complaints about administrative issues, which are dealt with through the complaints procedure.

Failure to provide the appeal code / form are obviously administrative issues and if the council doesn't play ball, there's ultimately recourse to the local government ombudsman.

The easiest way to pursue this would be for you to authorise me to bring a complaint on your behalf, if you're happy to do that drop me a PM with your email address and we can take it from there.


--------------------
I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
No, I am not a lawyer.
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frenchgooner
post Mon, 9 Dec 2019 - 18:39
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cp, ive sent you a PM. Cheers
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