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Letter before action, dishonoured cheque.
Korting
post Mon, 28 Jan 2019 - 23:19
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Just before Christmas, I carried out some work on two vintage audio items. The customer lives approx 150 miles from where I'm based.

I delivered back after repair one of the items back in early January and was given a company cheque with a request to make the bill out to 'repair of electronic equipment' or industrial equipment. The amount was £528.00 for both items

A few days later the cheque is returned 'Payment Stopped'

There was no communication from the customer up to the point that I tried to call her and sent her an email.

She replied to that email which was quite lengthy, making excuses as to why she stopped the cheque and offering me £200 + £25 for a new bluetooth (which actually cost me around £50 with my making up a special lead).

I replied to her telling her that her offer was unacceptable and that I would return to put right any problems or if she didn't want me to return, I would take £100 off the bill.

She didn't respond

I'm now in the process of sending a letter before action

QUOTE
Dear A.....,

Thank you for your email of the 16th January, which I replied to (copy attached) but to date have had no reply.

In that email, I explained that I was not prepared to accept £200 from you and I explained my reasons why. I also included an invoice which clearly explains the work carried out and materials used.

I’m sure that you will understand that in any business/service, things don’t always go to plan and there can be unforeseen problems, but in that eventuality I would endeavour to try and put things right, as I’m sure you would if that happened in your business. I have offered to come back to you, collect the radio, have another look at it and find out what has gone wrong and repair it so that it works in your house. This would be carried out at no further cost to you. I would also extend my guarantee for 1 year starting on the day it was returned to you. This would all be done at your convenience.

I feel that it is only fair that you give me the opportunity to put things right.

I also gave you the option of paying a reduced amount of £428, but that would be without carrying out any further work to the radio. This offer is available to you until Friday 15th February.

However I must regretfully inform you that should I not receive payment from you, or be given the opportunity to collect the radio by 15th February in order to repair it, then you will give me no alternative than to issue proceedings in the small claims court against your company, Xxxxxx Ltd, for the full sum of £528.

If this becomes necessary then I will add a fee of £120 to cover my time in dealing with this, plus the court fees.

I have to also inform you that if I am required to travel to you for any court hearing, then I will require your company to pay for my travelling costs and if the hearing is scheduled for the morning, my overnight accommodation.

I really do hope that this will not be necessary and that we can find a friendly and amicable solution to this.

I look forward to your early reply.

Yours sincerely


My wife thinks that the lat two paragraphs (beginning with If this become necessary....) is too heavy.

I'm trying to be fair to the customer, but feel that I should set out any charges that she may incur if I have to take this further.

So I'm inviting anyone who would like to to comment.

This post has been edited by Korting: Mon, 28 Jan 2019 - 23:20
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big_mac
post Sun, 3 Feb 2019 - 16:50
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I think it's probably worth pointing out that going to court will incur additional costs, and even suggest she looks for legal advice regarding cancelled cheques.
(In the hope that she realises it is a pointless fight).

http://www.sarginsonslaw.co.uk/Case-studie...ed__cheque.html
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Korting
post Sun, 3 Feb 2019 - 22:36
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QUOTE (big_mac @ Sun, 3 Feb 2019 - 16:50) *
I think it's probably worth pointing out that going to court will incur additional costs, and even suggest she looks for legal advice regarding cancelled cheques.
(In the hope that she realises it is a pointless fight).

http://www.sarginsonslaw.co.uk/Case-studie...ed__cheque.html



I really don't see why I should, let her learn the hard way. I'm not really wanting to help her.

Also a big thank you to Redvi

This post has been edited by Korting: Sun, 3 Feb 2019 - 22:37
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Korting
post Mon, 4 Feb 2019 - 06:30
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Just realised, i have put the wrong date on my original letter before action. I put 2018 instead of 2019.

I will send the original letter with the correct date on it and an apology in the next letter. The letter of claim was correctly dated.
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Redivi
post Mon, 4 Feb 2019 - 09:01
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QUOTE (Korting @ Sun, 3 Feb 2019 - 22:36) *
QUOTE (big_mac @ Sun, 3 Feb 2019 - 16:50) *
I think it's probably worth pointing out that going to court will incur additional costs, and even suggest she looks for legal advice regarding cancelled cheques.
(In the hope that she realises it is a pointless fight).

http://www.sarginsonslaw.co.uk/Case-studie...ed__cheque.html



I really don't see why I should, let her learn the hard way. I'm not really wanting to help her.

Also a big thank you to Redvi

Thanks

I wouldn't include the additional phrase on the principle that anything not essential in a letter has potential to be twisted or used as a diversion

If the OP's sent the Pre-action Protocol documents, Ann's already received the questionnaire that includes a section about obtaining legal advice
If she's chosen to ignore it, nothing he writes now will change her mind

This post has been edited by Redivi: Mon, 4 Feb 2019 - 09:01
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Korting
post Tue, 5 Feb 2019 - 09:57
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Unfortunately there were a couple of mistakes on my original letter. They were wrong dates 2018 instead of 2019 and spelling of the company name in which i transposed the letters i and e.

What I propose to do is to correct those errors and enclose the original, but corrected letter together with a reply as below.

QUOTE
Dear A

Re: Dishonoured cheque.

Thank you for your text in reply to my letter before action. (Screenshots have been saved)

My letter before action had the incorrect year (2018 instead of 2019) and the spelling of the company name was incorrect. I apologise for that and include a copy of the letter with the correct company name and date.

Although I consider that you have not been duly disadvantaged by those mistakes and to be fair to you, I am willing to extend the date to Tuesday March 12th for your company to pay me.

You gave me a cheque on my returning the equipment and demonstrating it to you. You put a stop on it without even having the courtesy of informing me of your intention.

In your text, you said I should either accept your offer of £200 + the Bluetooth or to put you in court in which case I’ll get nothing.

I’m not prepared to accept your offer.

As stated in my letter before action, I require the full value of the cheque.

As a gesture of goodwill, I am prepared to accept the sum of £428 if payment is made by Tuesday 12th March.

After this date, I will presume that my offer has been rejected and will issue proceedings against -------- Ltd without further notice.

Yours sincerely


Do you think thats ok?
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notmeatloaf
post Tue, 5 Feb 2019 - 11:42
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Once again I wouldn't bother with all the extra about courtesy, you're not having a who can have the best manners competition.

Why do you keep offering random amounts if she has said she isn't going to move?

If you are you might as well write "Without prejudice" on it if you are still going for the full amount in court. I don't know how your sector works but when I used to run my own business the price I quoted was the final price, I wouldn't have knocked anything off and certainly not if they didn't show any signs of meeting in the middle.

Your time is presumably valuable and you are having to spend more time on this, not less.
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Korting
post Tue, 5 Feb 2019 - 12:54
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I’m not offering random amounts. The cheque value was £528.00, I offered to sell for £428 in full and final settlement leaving the radio as is, or to do more work on the radio but she pays the full amount.

As far as being courteous, I don’t want a judge to rule against me because I got a couple of minor things wrong like the wrong date or the wrong spelling of the company name.
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Redivi
post Tue, 5 Feb 2019 - 14:03
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You still seem to be confusing the radio with the cheque

You were given a cheque for £528
She cancelled the cheque
She owes you £528 but if she pays quickly you're willing to settle for £428

Whatever discussions you had before the cheque was issued regarding discounts or offers of further work have nothing whatsoever to do with case


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Korting
post Tue, 5 Feb 2019 - 14:09
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The issue surrounding the 'discount' of £428 took place after the cheque was issued, where I said that I'd accept the lower amount if she didn't want further work done to the radio. That is still the case, I also offered to collect the radio and sort out the problems, upon which she would be called upon to pay me the full £528.

Of course if I sue, I sue for the full amount of the cheque.

What about the fact that I've had to correct my original letter? Does the text of the new one cover that?
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cabbyman
post Tue, 5 Feb 2019 - 14:19
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How close to the six years limitation is this case coming? huh.gif


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oldstoat
post Tue, 5 Feb 2019 - 15:16
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You are suing for a dishonoured cheque. Nothing more nothing less. Speling error are not going to cause a problem. Just issue the proceedings. Forget sentiment or anything else. The law is clear. Cheque is a promise to pay. Cheque dishonoured. You win That is the be all and end all of this case.


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Korting
post Tue, 5 Feb 2019 - 16:38
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QUOTE (cabbyman @ Tue, 5 Feb 2019 - 14:19) *
How close to the six years limitation is this case coming? huh.gif



5 years, 11 months!
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cp8759
post Tue, 5 Feb 2019 - 18:26
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Then get a move on, you won't be able to get an extension if you run out of time.

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oldstoat
post Tue, 5 Feb 2019 - 18:32
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QUOTE (cp8759 @ Tue, 5 Feb 2019 - 18:26) *
Then get a move on, you won't be able to get an extension if you run out of time.


think they mean they still have 5 years and 11 months to bring the claim It only happened Xmas 2018

This post has been edited by oldstoat: Tue, 5 Feb 2019 - 18:32


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cp8759
post Tue, 5 Feb 2019 - 19:01
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QUOTE (oldstoat @ Tue, 5 Feb 2019 - 18:32) *
QUOTE (cp8759 @ Tue, 5 Feb 2019 - 18:26) *
Then get a move on, you won't be able to get an extension if you run out of time.


think they mean they still have 5 years and 11 months to bring the claim It only happened Xmas 2018

Ah right


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Glacier2
post Tue, 5 Feb 2019 - 19:23
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QUOTE (oldstoat @ Tue, 5 Feb 2019 - 15:16) *
You are suing for a dishonoured cheque. Nothing more nothing less. Speling error are not going to cause a problem. Just issue the proceedings. Forget sentiment or anything else. The law is clear. Cheque is a promise to pay. Cheque dishonoured. You win That is the be all and end all of this case.

Anything else is just clouding the issue and giving the other side wriggle room.
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notmeatloaf
post Tue, 5 Feb 2019 - 23:14
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The problem isn't a legal one, it's one of human psychology.

If you ask for £528, but say you'll accept £428, then the other party then has £428 fixed in their mind as the maximum fair price to pay.

That means you may, legally, be able to pursue the £528 but you will have to drag them kicking and screaming. They are less likely to ultimately settle, at least with you accepting a reduced payment.

I don't get the "if you pay me £528 I will do future work for you". If they don't pay on time and are spending essentially peanuts, drop them. I figured I would rather lose the work then waste time chasing payments. Upset a lot of people doing it, "there's only one person who can sign cheques" etc. but cheaper to get more work then waste time chasing.

I should say as well the way I learnt that was on a business who, frankly, were raking it in. Yet every invoice had to be chased, multiple promises about payment.

In the end I refused to do any more work for them. Multiple pleas as j was the only person in the area who could maintain the equipment they had. Didn't care. Not worth my time. I would respectfully suggest if you have specialist skills you can afford to pick and choose your clients.

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Redivi
post Wed, 6 Feb 2019 - 09:12
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Nice one if they ended up paying £150/hr travelling costs for your replacement

The obvious alternative is to request full payment upfront

One of my former employers delayed paying suppliers, one of which was a local company that it sub-contracted to make certain specialist products

Whenever they had a problem with an invoice, they called our sympathetic tech service engineer
He would tell them which was the best order to block until they were paid
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Korting
post Wed, 6 Feb 2019 - 17:11
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Very very rarely would I ask for money upfront, i would only do that if I needed to get a very very expensive part, ie an LCD/LED/plasma screen or in the earlier days a CRT Picture tube)

The reason the customer is not happy is because though the radio section worked in my workshop, it didn't pick up station at her house. I have offered to collect said radio and find out whats gone wrong and redeliver it at no extra cost. If I did that and returned it to her working in her house, I would seek the full £528.00

OR

She could keep and use the radio as it is and I would as a goodwill gesture reduce the bill to £428. At this lower price I would not have to carry out any more work on the radio.

I should point out that this radio is approx 68 years old! Equipment of this age should NOT be used until certain parts have been replaced.

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cabbyman
post Wed, 6 Feb 2019 - 17:27
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Which is totally and utterly irrelevant to the issue of the dishonoured cheque.


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