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Phoenix Way (Services), Contravention 52J
JayEss
post Mon, 12 Aug 2019 - 18:42
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Hi, I have received a PCN in relation to contravention 52J at Phoenix Way (Services). I entered here as I was staying at the Travelodge and the alternative way added an hour to my journey, which had already taken 3 hours with 3 young kids.

Can you please advise how I can appeal. I am still with in the 28 day period but have passed the 14 day discount period as I was away for the last 2 weeks, so just returned home.

Thanks in advance.
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post Mon, 12 Aug 2019 - 18:42
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cp8759
post Tue, 13 Aug 2019 - 14:55
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This is a reasonably straightforward location to win at, because the Traffic Management Order that creates the restriction is flawed. However in the first instance post up the PCN (all sides of all pages) and the video, so we can take a look. Use an external site like imgur.com or imgbb.com to host the picutres, and a site like youtube or vimeo for the video. You can use this https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/f...hlhccpdbc?hl=en to download the video from the council website.


--------------------
I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
No, I am not a lawyer.
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JayEss
post Wed, 14 Aug 2019 - 22:01
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QUOTE (cp8759 @ Tue, 13 Aug 2019 - 15:55) *
This is a reasonably straightforward location to win at, because the Traffic Management Order that creates the restriction is flawed. However in the first instance post up the PCN (all sides of all pages) and the video, so we can take a look. Use an external site like imgur.com or imgbb.com to host the picutres, and a site like youtube or vimeo for the video. You can use this https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/f...hlhccpdbc?hl=en to download the video from the council website.


Hi thanks for your reply.

the PCN is saved here:
https://ibb.co/pj0hz0k
https://ibb.co/CnZJGfD
https://ibb.co/nzKnhHY

Will share the video as soon as it is made available.

This post has been edited by JayEss: Wed, 14 Aug 2019 - 22:05
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cp8759
post Thu, 15 Aug 2019 - 15:43
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The council will issue a stock rejection letter no matter what you submit, so I'd just send something simple and to the point. Also send them copies of http://bit.ly/2vlXb2t http://bit.ly/2Ds5cYf and http://bit.ly/31yv8L6

-------------------

Dear London Borough of Hounslow,

The alleged contravention did not occur, this is because the signage at the location does not convey the restriction imposed by the Traffic Management Order. I refer you to the decisions in the following cases:

Yadevinder Hothi v London Borough of Hounslow (2180474156, 05 January 2019)
Nisha Patel v London Borough of Hounslow (2190096099, 13 April 2019)
Alistair Kelly v London Borough of Hounslow (2190228928, 05 August 2019)

There is no basis to believe the tribunal would reach a different decision in this case as the facts are the same, in light of this the PCN should be cancelled.


--------------------
I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
No, I am not a lawyer.
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JayEss
post Sat, 5 Oct 2019 - 11:09
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I replied as advised and received the rejection letter recently. See here https://ibb.co/6tBxyF9

Is it worth pursing? and could someone please advise what to do next?

Thanks in advance.



QUOTE (cp8759 @ Thu, 15 Aug 2019 - 16:43) *
The council will issue a stock rejection letter no matter what you submit, so I'd just send something simple and to the point. Also send them copies of http://bit.ly/2vlXb2t http://bit.ly/2Ds5cYf and http://bit.ly/31yv8L6

-------------------

Dear London Borough of Hounslow,

The alleged contravention did not occur, this is because the signage at the location does not convey the restriction imposed by the Traffic Management Order. I refer you to the decisions in the following cases:

Yadevinder Hothi v London Borough of Hounslow (2180474156, 05 January 2019)
Nisha Patel v London Borough of Hounslow (2190096099, 13 April 2019)
Alistair Kelly v London Borough of Hounslow (2190228928, 05 August 2019)

There is no basis to believe the tribunal would reach a different decision in this case as the facts are the same, in light of this the PCN should be cancelled.

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cp8759
post Sat, 5 Oct 2019 - 15:20
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This is the new order: https://www.hounslow.gov.uk/download/downlo...-_tmop03219.pdf

The description of the "Length of road" and "Location" is exactly the same as before, so I would carry on. We cannot guarantee success, but so far the tribunal has been very consistent in holding that the location described in the order is wrong. For the council to enforce these signs, the TMO should create a restriction that prohibits motor vehicles from driving on Norwood Road.

As the new order uses the exact same wording as the old order, the previous decisions are obviously relevant. I would suggest you simply register the appeal and write "detailed grounds to follow" in the reasons box, this will force the council to submit its evidence first.


--------------------
I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
No, I am not a lawyer.
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JayEss
post Fri, 11 Oct 2019 - 21:19
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Thanks. Which reason for 'Grounds of Appeal' should I use? see here for choices: https://ibb.co/g7y1R0j

And if I put detailed grounds to follow, when would I provide these details?

Thank you

QUOTE (cp8759 @ Sat, 5 Oct 2019 - 16:20) *
This is the new order: https://www.hounslow.gov.uk/download/downlo...-_tmop03219.pdf

The description of the "Length of road" and "Location" is exactly the same as before, so I would carry on. We cannot guarantee success, but so far the tribunal has been very consistent in holding that the location described in the order is wrong. For the council to enforce these signs, the TMO should create a restriction that prohibits motor vehicles from driving on Norwood Road.

As the new order uses the exact same wording as the old order, the previous decisions are obviously relevant. I would suggest you simply register the appeal and write "detailed grounds to follow" in the reasons box, this will force the council to submit its evidence first.

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cp8759
post Sat, 12 Oct 2019 - 11:24
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Register the appeal online, there's no point in wasting time with posting paper forms, the website is https://londontribunals.org.uk/ follow the link to "Create new appeal", you'll need the verification code that's printed on the Notice of Rejection. The statutory ground of appeal is that the alleged contravention did not occur.

Once you've registered the appeal, the tribunal will email you a hearing date, as long as you submit your full appeal wording to the tribunal before that date the adjudicator will take it into account.

Also upload the other page of the Notice of Rejection so we can check for errors.


--------------------
I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
No, I am not a lawyer.
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JayEss
post Fri, 18 Oct 2019 - 22:33
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Thanks. Please find the other pages here:

https://ibb.co/fkqG5Jt
https://ibb.co/tXFWDz9
https://ibb.co/0jBPxyp
https://ibb.co/MNw7hdk

Will log it online as advised. Cheers

QUOTE (cp8759 @ Sat, 12 Oct 2019 - 12:24) *
Register the appeal online, there's no point in wasting time with posting paper forms, the website is https://londontribunals.org.uk/ follow the link to "Create new appeal", you'll need the verification code that's printed on the Notice of Rejection. The statutory ground of appeal is that the alleged contravention did not occur.

Once you've registered the appeal, the tribunal will email you a hearing date, as long as you submit your full appeal wording to the tribunal before that date the adjudicator will take it into account.

Also upload the other page of the Notice of Rejection so we can check for errors.


This post has been edited by JayEss: Fri, 18 Oct 2019 - 22:37
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JayEss
post Mon, 4 Nov 2019 - 16:59
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Hi,

The appeal was registered as advised. Could you please advise what needs to be submitted as evidence.

Thanks,
JayEss


QUOTE (cp8759 @ Sat, 12 Oct 2019 - 12:24) *
Register the appeal online, there's no point in wasting time with posting paper forms, the website is https://londontribunals.org.uk/ follow the link to "Create new appeal", you'll need the verification code that's printed on the Notice of Rejection. The statutory ground of appeal is that the alleged contravention did not occur.

Once you've registered the appeal, the tribunal will email you a hearing date, as long as you submit your full appeal wording to the tribunal before that date the adjudicator will take it into account.

Also upload the other page of the Notice of Rejection so we can check for errors.

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cp8759
post Tue, 5 Nov 2019 - 22:12
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QUOTE (JayEss @ Mon, 4 Nov 2019 - 16:59) *
Hi,

The appeal was registered as advised. Could you please advise what needs to be submitted as evidence.

Nothing, the council now has 7 days to supply its evidence to the tribunal. Unless/until that happens, you don't need to do a thing.


--------------------
I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
No, I am not a lawyer.
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JayEss
post Tue, 5 Nov 2019 - 22:37
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Ok thanks, how will I know if they have done this? The appeal was lodged on about 2 weeks ago now.

QUOTE (cp8759 @ Tue, 5 Nov 2019 - 23:12) *
QUOTE (JayEss @ Mon, 4 Nov 2019 - 16:59) *
Hi,

The appeal was registered as advised. Could you please advise what needs to be submitted as evidence.

Nothing, the council now has 7 days to supply its evidence to the tribunal. Unless/until that happens, you don't need to do a thing.

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cp8759
post Wed, 6 Nov 2019 - 17:12
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QUOTE (JayEss @ Tue, 5 Nov 2019 - 22:37) *
Ok thanks, how will I know if they have done this? The appeal was lodged on about 2 weeks ago now.

Log onto the tribunal appeals portal and have a look, if any evidence has been uploaded, it'll be there. If there's nothing there, take a screenshot.


--------------------
I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
No, I am not a lawyer.
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JayEss
post Thu, 7 Nov 2019 - 13:38
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Nothing there other than what I put on - evidence to follow.

https://ibb.co/cyHzK1s
https://ibb.co/xzXDkXp

Does this mean I shouldn’t upload anything further?

Thanks

QUOTE (cp8759 @ Wed, 6 Nov 2019 - 18:12) *
QUOTE (JayEss @ Tue, 5 Nov 2019 - 22:37) *
Ok thanks, how will I know if they have done this? The appeal was lodged on about 2 weeks ago now.

Log onto the tribunal appeals portal and have a look, if any evidence has been uploaded, it'll be there. If there's nothing there, take a screenshot.

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cp8759
post Thu, 7 Nov 2019 - 17:32
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QUOTE (JayEss @ Thu, 7 Nov 2019 - 13:38) *
Nothing there other than what I put on - evidence to follow.

https://ibb.co/cyHzK1s
https://ibb.co/xzXDkXp

Does this mean I shouldn’t upload anything further?

Not yet no. If the council doesn't upload anything, there will be no evidence of anything and you'll automatically win.


--------------------
I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
No, I am not a lawyer.
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JayEss
post Tue, 12 Nov 2019 - 11:16
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They have submitted some evidence now. I have until 15/11 to submit anything further. please advise what I should submit. Thanks

QUOTE (cp8759 @ Thu, 7 Nov 2019 - 18:32) *
QUOTE (JayEss @ Thu, 7 Nov 2019 - 13:38) *
Nothing there other than what I put on - evidence to follow.

https://ibb.co/cyHzK1s
https://ibb.co/xzXDkXp

Does this mean I shouldn’t upload anything further?

Not yet no. If the council doesn't upload anything, there will be no evidence of anything and you'll automatically win.

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cp8759
post Yesterday, 01:15
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QUOTE (JayEss @ Tue, 12 Nov 2019 - 11:16) *
They have submitted some evidence now. I have until 15/11 to submit anything further. please advise what I should submit. Thanks

Show us the council's case summary.


--------------------
I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
No, I am not a lawyer.
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JayEss
post Yesterday, 04:06
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QUOTE (cp8759 @ Wed, 13 Nov 2019 - 02:15) *
QUOTE (JayEss @ Tue, 12 Nov 2019 - 11:16) *
They have submitted some evidence now. I have until 15/11 to submit anything further. please advise what I should submit. Thanks

Show us the council's case summary.


Here is the case summary.

https://ibb.co/m8WxmDr
https://ibb.co/dQrnqLJ

Thanks
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cp8759
post Yesterday, 18:59
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Here's a draft of your appeal: http://bit.ly/2NKQIIk

You'll have to download this, replace your username with your real name, change the text to black and save as a PDF, before uploading to the tribunal website. Of course I always recommend you read it over before submitting it, it is your appeal after all.

Also upload copies of these decisions:

London Borough of Barnet Council, R (on the application of) v The Parking Adjudicator [2006] EWHC 2357 (Admin) http://bit.ly/2V1utPz
Yadevinder Hothi v London Borough of Hounslow (2180474156, 05 January 2019) http://bit.ly/2vlXb2t
Nisha Patel v London Borough of Hounslow (2190096099, 13 April 2019) http://bit.ly/2Ds5cYf
Alistair Kelly v London Borough of Hounslow (2190228928, 05 August 2019) http://bit.ly/31yv8L6
Neil Freeman v London Borough of Hounslow (2190304425, 30 August 2019) http://bit.ly/2B38vmX


--------------------
I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
No, I am not a lawyer.
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