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[NIP Wizard] NIP received over 6 weeks from alleged offence
OnlyTimeWillTell
post Tue, 4 Feb 2020 - 18:07
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NIP Details and Circumstances
What is the name of the Constabulary? -
Date of the offence: - December 2019
Date of the NIP: - 51 days after the offence
Date you received the NIP: - 52 days after the offence
Location of offence (exact location as it appears on the NIP: important): - B6145 Thornton Road, Bradford, Between Glynn Terrace & Lane Ends Close, United Kingdom
Was the NIP addressed to you? - Yes
Was the NIP sent by first class post, second class or recorded delivery? - First
If your are not the Registered Keeper, what is your relationship to the vehicle? - Company vehicle/van assigned to me for that particular shift/day of work
How many current points do you have? - 0
Provide a description of events (if you know what happened) telling us as much about the incident as possible - some things that may seem trivial to you may be important, so don't leave anything out. Please do not post personal details for obvious reasons - I remember the incident, it’s likely I was speeding, albeit momentarily. The reason being it was early on a Saturday morning, I distinctly remember being the only vehicle on that stretch of road. I’d already passed through several fixed roadside cameras in a short distance in the lead up to the alleged offence. Because I’m deemed by my company to be a ‘professional driver’ I’m used to seeing these mobile/manned van’s parked up with their little hatches open ready to catch unsuspecting drivers. This one, was very cleverly parked between street lamps and in almost total darkness, so by the time I’d spotted him, it was too late. Because I read they have 14 days to issue the NIP from the date of the offence, do I have any recourse now as I’ve only been notified 6+ weeks later? It appears the police have sent the NIP to my work HQ perhaps? Could this be reason for the delay? I should also add I’m deemed to have been recorded at 39mph in a 30mph limit at 06:20.

NIP Wizard Responses
These were the responses used by the Wizard to arrive at its recommendation:
Have you received a NIP? - Yes
Are you the Registered Keeper of the vehicle concerned (is your name and address on the V5/V5C)? - No
Is the NIP addressed to you personally? - Yes
Although you are not the Registered Keeper, were you the keeper of the vehicle concerned (the person normally responsible for it) at the time of the alleged offence? - Yes
Were you driving? - Yes
Which country did the alleged offence take place in? - England

NIP Wizard Recommendation
Based on these responses the Wizard suggested that this course of action should be considered:
  • The law requires you to provide the information requested in the Section 172 notice within the 28 day period, naming yourself as the driver. If you are considering obtaining formal legal advice, do so before returning the notice.

    You should note that there is nothing to be gained by responding any earlier than you have to at any stage of the process. You are likely to receive a Conditional Offer of a Fixed Penalty (COFP) and further reminder(s). If you want to continue the fight, you should ignore all correspondence from the police until you receive a summons. You need to understand from the outset that while you will receive much help and support from members on the forums, you will need to put time and effort into fighting your case and ultimately be prepared to stand up in court to defend yourself.

Generated by the PePiPoo NIP Wizard v3.3.2: Tue, 04 Feb 2020 18:07:44 +0000

This post has been edited by OnlyTimeWillTell: Tue, 4 Feb 2020 - 18:12
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post Tue, 4 Feb 2020 - 18:07
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Jlc
post Tue, 4 Feb 2020 - 18:18
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It’s only the 1st NIP (to the registered keeper) that is subject to those 14 days.

It’s unlikely that one was late - this would have gone to your company/lease firm first - you can check if you like.

That excess will qualify for a course to avoid the points at least.


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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OnlyTimeWillTell
post Tue, 4 Feb 2020 - 19:22
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QUOTE (Jlc @ Tue, 4 Feb 2020 - 18:18) *
It’s only the 1st NIP (to the registered keeper) that is subject to those 14 days.

It’s unlikely that one was late - this would have gone to your company/lease firm first - you can check if you like.

That excess will qualify for a course to avoid the points at least.


If it was more than 14 days before my company received correspondence, does it become void/invalid?
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morrisman
post Tue, 4 Feb 2020 - 19:30
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QUOTE (OnlyTimeWillTell @ Tue, 4 Feb 2020 - 19:22) *
QUOTE (Jlc @ Tue, 4 Feb 2020 - 18:18) *
It’s only the 1st NIP (to the registered keeper) that is subject to those 14 days.

It’s unlikely that one was late - this would have gone to your company/lease firm first - you can check if you like.

That excess will qualify for a course to avoid the points at least.


If it was more than 14 days before my company received correspondence, does it become void/invalid?

Only if they are the registered keepers, for instance are the vans leased in which case the first NIP would have gone to the lease company
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OnlyTimeWillTell
post Tue, 4 Feb 2020 - 19:39
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QUOTE (morrisman @ Tue, 4 Feb 2020 - 19:30) *
QUOTE (OnlyTimeWillTell @ Tue, 4 Feb 2020 - 19:22) *
QUOTE (Jlc @ Tue, 4 Feb 2020 - 18:18) *
It’s only the 1st NIP (to the registered keeper) that is subject to those 14 days.

It’s unlikely that one was late - this would have gone to your company/lease firm first - you can check if you like.

That excess will qualify for a course to avoid the points at least.


If it was more than 14 days before my company received correspondence, does it become void/invalid?

Only if they are the registered keepers, for instance are the vans leased in which case the first NIP would have gone to the lease company


I’ll have to check with them, I’m not sure. I’m thinking (or rather hoping) there may have been a delay with the Christmas period.

This post has been edited by OnlyTimeWillTell: Tue, 4 Feb 2020 - 19:40
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Jlc
post Tue, 4 Feb 2020 - 19:42
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It's not impossible. But regardless you must name the driver as you would commit a separate offence if you do not.


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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OnlyTimeWillTell
post Wed, 5 Feb 2020 - 08:31
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QUOTE (Jlc @ Tue, 4 Feb 2020 - 19:42) *
It's not impossible. But regardless you must name the driver as you would commit a separate offence if you do not.


Ah right, so you’re saying regardless of whether it was received after the 28/12/2019 by whoever, I still have to send this form back confirming I was the driver?

At what point in the folllowing 28 days do I need to be posting this?
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Jlc
post Wed, 5 Feb 2020 - 08:37
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QUOTE (OnlyTimeWillTell @ Wed, 5 Feb 2020 - 08:31) *
I still have to send this form back confirming I was the driver?

Yes!

QUOTE (OnlyTimeWillTell @ Wed, 5 Feb 2020 - 08:31) *
At what point in the folllowing 28 days do I need to be posting this?

So it arrives within 28 days. (Upon receiving the request)

This post has been edited by Jlc: Wed, 5 Feb 2020 - 08:37


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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The Rookie
post Wed, 5 Feb 2020 - 08:38
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QUOTE (Jlc @ Wed, 5 Feb 2020 - 09:37) *
So it arrives within 28 days. (Upon receiving the request)

Noting that the day it arrived was day ONE of the 28, not day zero preceding the 28 days.


--------------------
There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
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Council PCN's
Rookies 1-0 Warwick
Rookies 1-0 Birmingham

PPC PCN's
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OnlyTimeWillTell
post Wed, 5 Feb 2020 - 17:08
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QUOTE (The Rookie @ Wed, 5 Feb 2020 - 08:38) *
QUOTE (Jlc @ Wed, 5 Feb 2020 - 09:37) *
So it arrives within 28 days. (Upon receiving the request)

Noting that the day it arrived was day ONE of the 28, not day zero preceding the 28 days.


Is it worth stating my salary when I return the form? I’ve heard they tailor the potential fine to what you earn?
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Jlc
post Wed, 5 Feb 2020 - 17:18
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39 in a 30 will see a course offer or a Fixed Penalty Offer (3 points £100).

Earnings are not required at this stage - they're not asking for it?


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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OnlyTimeWillTell
post Wed, 5 Feb 2020 - 17:32
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QUOTE (Jlc @ Wed, 5 Feb 2020 - 17:18) *
39 in a 30 will see a course offer or a Fixed Penalty Offer (3 points £100).

Earnings are not required at this stage - they're not asking for it?


No, not asking.
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The Rookie
post Wed, 5 Feb 2020 - 17:37
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Earnings matter ONLY if it goes to court, unless you decide not to accept the other options it won’t go near court.


--------------------
There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
Rookies 1-0 Kent

Council PCN's
Rookies 1-0 Warwick
Rookies 1-0 Birmingham

PPC PCN's
Rookies 10-0 PPC's
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OnlyTimeWillTell
post Sat, 22 Feb 2020 - 14:45
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So, I’m still unclear as to when exactly my work initially received the NIP...

Today I received the offer of a course. I don’t really see how I can get out of this now? They say on the letter ‘Courses are designed to educate NOT punish’. That might be so, IF they didn’t then insist you have to PAY (punish) for said course??

And to top it all off, after my first aberration of speeding in almost 30 years of driving, today I have now received my first parking charge notice in 20 years whilst at work (again)... this one I really am aggrieved about! Is there a link someone can provide to where I need to be giving details about this? It’s a PCN issued by BPA on private land (retail park). I purposefully didn’t park in a marked bay, because my work van is too wide and long & didn’t want to park inconsiderately for other motorists, so parked outside a Greggs outlet, whereby vehicles could still easily manoeuvre around me. I was inside for 2-3 minutes only, come out and there’s a warden taking photos and he’d slapped a note on my windscreen. Fuming.

Many thanks everyone.

*Parking Charge Notice to be clear. Apparently there’s a subtle difference.
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666
post Sat, 22 Feb 2020 - 14:49
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You need to post about the PCN on the Private Parking sub-forum to get expert advice.
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Jlc
post Sat, 22 Feb 2020 - 14:51
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QUOTE (OnlyTimeWillTell @ Sat, 22 Feb 2020 - 14:45) *
So, I’m still unclear as to when exactly my work initially received the NIP...

Without knowing for sure then you have very few options.

QUOTE (OnlyTimeWillTell @ Sat, 22 Feb 2020 - 14:45) *
Today I received the offer of a course. I don’t really see how I can get out of this now? They say on the letter ‘Courses are designed to educate NOT punish’. That might be so, IF they didn’t then insist you have to PAY (punish) for said course??

You can reject the course/fixed penalty and still take the matter to court. But without confirming the above I wouldn't consider it.

QUOTE (OnlyTimeWillTell @ Sat, 22 Feb 2020 - 14:45) *
And to top it all off, after my first aberration of speeding in almost 30 years of driving, today I have now received my first parking charge notice in 20 years whilst at work (again)... this one I really am aggrieved about! Is there a link someone can provide to where I need to be giving details about this? It’s a PCN issued by BPA on private land (retail park). I purposefully didn’t park in a marked bay, because my work van is too wide and long & didn’t want to park inconsiderately for other motorists, so parked outside a Greggs outlet, whereby vehicles could still easily manoeuvre around me. I was inside for 2-3 minutes only, come out and there’s a warden taking photos and he’d slapped a note on my windscreen. Fuming.

Start a new thread here.


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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nosferatu1001
post Mon, 24 Feb 2020 - 09:18
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It also isnt the BPA that issued it, I absolutely g'tee.
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OnlyTimeWillTell
post Tue, 25 Feb 2020 - 10:35
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QUOTE (nosferatu1001 @ Mon, 24 Feb 2020 - 09:18) *
It also isnt the BPA that issued it, I absolutely g'tee.



I meant BPA approved. Their logo is on the ticket. If it hadn’t been I’d have ignored, as they can’t get your details from the DVLA. I’ve set the ball rolling anyway by contacting the company to say I refute the charge and will be contacting POPLA if that is unsuccessful.

QUOTE (Jlc @ Sat, 22 Feb 2020 - 14:51) *
QUOTE (OnlyTimeWillTell @ Sat, 22 Feb 2020 - 14:45) *
So, I’m still unclear as to when exactly my work initially received the NIP...

Without knowing for sure then you have very few options.

QUOTE (OnlyTimeWillTell @ Sat, 22 Feb 2020 - 14:45) *
Today I received the offer of a course. I don’t really see how I can get out of this now? They say on the letter ‘Courses are designed to educate NOT punish’. That might be so, IF they didn’t then insist you have to PAY (punish) for said course??

You can reject the course/fixed penalty and still take the matter to court. But without confirming the above I wouldn't consider it.

QUOTE (OnlyTimeWillTell @ Sat, 22 Feb 2020 - 14:45) *
And to top it all off, after my first aberration of speeding in almost 30 years of driving, today I have now received my first parking charge notice in 20 years whilst at work (again)... this one I really am aggrieved about! Is there a link someone can provide to where I need to be giving details about this? It’s a PCN issued by BPA on private land (retail park). I purposefully didn’t park in a marked bay, because my work van is too wide and long & didn’t want to park inconsiderately for other motorists, so parked outside a Greggs outlet, whereby vehicles could still easily manoeuvre around me. I was inside for 2-3 minutes only, come out and there’s a warden taking photos and he’d slapped a note on my windscreen. Fuming.

Start a new thread here.



So, it’s been confirmed, my company received notification of the alleged offence on 16/12/2019, so they didn’t waste anytime. The hold-up’s been with my company, they explained the police had contacted them again in the New Year.

So, I guess at this point there’s nothing else that can be done? I have to accept to pay for a course?

This post has been edited by OnlyTimeWillTell: Tue, 25 Feb 2020 - 10:32
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The Rookie
post Tue, 25 Feb 2020 - 11:40
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QUOTE (OnlyTimeWillTell @ Tue, 25 Feb 2020 - 10:35) *
So, I guess at this point there’s nothing else that can be done? I have to accept to pay for a course?

Almost certainly not, clearly you don't HAVE to accept either offer, but I see nothing that suggests it would be a good idea not to!

QUOTE (OnlyTimeWillTell @ Tue, 25 Feb 2020 - 10:35) *
I meant BPA approved. Their logo is on the ticket. If it hadn’t been I’d have ignored, as they can’t get your details from the DVLA. I’ve set the ball rolling anyway by contacting the company to say I refute the charge and will be contacting POPLA if that is unsuccessful.

Well they've already contacted DVLA and got keeper details to send out the PCN (noting that IPC members can as well) so erm.........

What was your 'appeal', unless there is an actual appeal point they don't have to give a POPLA code, many people have shot themselves in the foot with an inept appeal. Please continue this in the right forum.


--------------------
There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
Rookies 1-0 Kent

Council PCN's
Rookies 1-0 Warwick
Rookies 1-0 Birmingham

PPC PCN's
Rookies 10-0 PPC's
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Fredd
post Tue, 25 Feb 2020 - 11:47
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Let's stop discussing the parking ticket here, if the OP wants help with that they can start a thread in the Private Parking section, as they've been told.


--------------------
Regards,
Fredd

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