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Harefield Retail Park - Uxbridge PCN - Euro Car Parks
s1214lang
post Wed, 17 Jan 2018 - 21:45
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Hi all

First timer here. Would like to thank anyone in advance who takes the time out to read this topic and offer advice.

Received a PCN from Euro Car Parks for overstaying at the Harefield Retail Park - Uxbridge. Overstayed by 11 min 52 sec (they put down seconds as well now in entry and exit time). Have gone through other posts at Harefield Retail Park, and am putting together an appeal. Any advice and help will be appreciated.

Important point: The PCN did not arrive within 14 days of the parking incident. Incident was on 30/12/2017. Date issue (and I assume posted) of PCN was 11/01/2018, which was a Thursday. Taking into account 2 working days for postage (which will be 12/01/18 - Friday, and 15/01/2018 - Monday), my letter arrived on Day 16.

Another point: Not sure if relevant, but the car park was nearly empty at the time of parking, mainly considering it was quite early on a Saturday morning (before 10am).

Attached is the PCN.



Should I appeal on the following grounds as the Registered Keeper?

1) No Genuine Pre-Estimate of Loss/Punitive Charge
2) Contractual Authority
3) BPA Code of Practice - non-compliance to guidelines
4) POFA 2012 - non-compliance to guidelines

Also, should I mention about 'stay' vs 'parking'; grace times (considering I overstayed by only under 12 minutes); signage (tiny text amount, usage of ANPR)? (Got all these from other posts about Harefield Retail Park). Or should I leave these for the POPLA appeal?

Have copied the appeal below from various sources, what changes (if any) would you recommend I make on this (apart from changing the overstayed times and dates to my case):

Vehicle Registration Number xxxxxxxx
PCN Reference xxxxxxxxxxx
Issued by Euro Car Parks Limited

As the registered keeper of the above vehicle, I wish to appeal the parking charge notice you have issued against it. I would like to have the parking charge notice cancelled based on the following grounds:

1) No Genuine Pre-Estimate of Loss/Punitive Charge
2) Contractual Authority
3) BPA Code of Practice - non-compliance to guidelines
4) POFA 2012 - non-compliance to guidelines

1) No Genuine Pre-Estimate of Loss/Punitive Charge:
According to Euro Car Park Limited's ANPR system, my car was parked for a 1 hour 30 minutes. The car park at Harefield Retail Park - Uxbridge allows customers to park free of charge, under tort of trespass law. As the driver was a customer for both Wickes and Halfords on the day in question they were not trespassing, neither have the companies lost out on any parking charges as the car park is free. £90 is quite clearly not a genuine pre-estimate of their loss or loss to the landowner. If Euro Car Parks Limited believes their charge is a genuine pre-estimate of loss to the landowner (Montagu Evans LLP), I request they produce a detailed and itemised breakdown of how this is calculated. The charge is punitive and clearly an unfair contractual term under UTCCR 1999 and is consequently unenforceable. The charge of £90 is clearly grossly disproportionate to the purported loss.

2) Contractual Authority:
Euro Car Parks Limited states that they have written authority to operate and issue parking charge notices on the site Harefield Retail Park - Uxbridge from the landowner. I request Euro Car Parks Limited to provide evidence that proves that this statement is true. It has to be an up-to-date and signed contract which shows they are lawfully entitled to demand money from the driver/registered keeper (in the event the driver has not been disclosed). I would also like to clarify that this should be an actual copy and not just a document stating such a contract exists. Without evidence of such the perceived "contract" between the driver and Euro Car Parks Limited is null and void, as in common law a contract can only be formed between the driver and the landowner.

3) BPA Code of Practice - non-compliance to guidelines:
The BPA Code of Practice point 20.5a stipulates that: "When issuing a parking charge notice you may use photographs as evidence that a vehicle was parked in an unauthorised way. The photographs must refer to and confirm the incident which you claim was unauthorised. A date and time stamp should be included on the photograph. All photographs used for evidence should be clear and legible and must not be retouched or digitally altered."

The parking charge notice in question contains two photographs of the vehicle number plate. Neither of these images contain a date and time stamp on the photographs nor do they clearly show the vehicle entering or leaving the car park as required in the BPA Code of practice. The time and date stamp has been inserted into the letter underneath (but not part of) the photographs. The images have also been cropped to only display the number plate, as these are not the original images I invite Euro Car Parks Limited to produce evidence of the original "un-cropped" images containing the required date and time stamp.

4) The Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 requires that the notice must be delivered to the keeper within 14 days of the Date of Issue. The first notice arrived on Wednesday 6th January 2016 and so does not comply within the required timeframe.

If you do reject the challenge and insist on taking the matter further I must inform you that I may claim my expenses from you. The expenses I may claim are not exhaustive but may include the cost of stamps, envelopes, travel expenses, legal fees, etc. By continuing to pursue me you agree to pay these costs when I prevail.

Any communication that does not either confirm cancellation or include a POPLA verification code/IAS appeal information will be reported to the BPA/IPC as a breach of their Code of Practice - the BPA recently issued guidance to all members to remind them of this fact. Such communication may also be deemed harassment and pursued accordingly.

I respectfully request that this parking charge notice appeal be allowed and await your decision.

Mr xxxxx



Once again, will really appreciate any help and advice on this. Thanks a lot.

EDIT: Added sentence about car park being nearly empty.

This post has been edited by s1214lang: Wed, 17 Jan 2018 - 22:15
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post Wed, 17 Jan 2018 - 21:45
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Redivi
post Sat, 17 Feb 2018 - 21:46
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I would add in the obvious section that Euro knew at the time they sent the Notice to Keeper that it would not arrive in time and that their statement regarding POFA was false

You can also send a complaint to the DVLA along with a copy of the Notice and ask that Euro is suspended from access to the keeper database while they investigate

Also complaint to the British Parking Association

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SchoolRunMum
post Sat, 17 Feb 2018 - 22:50
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QUOTE (ostell @ Wed, 14 Feb 2018 - 11:10) *
Make your first POFA reference the fact that it was not delivered within the relevant period of 14 days, contrary to 9 (4). Spell it out to POPLA as though they were 5 year olds. NTK posted on 11/1/18, a Thursday and therefore not delivered until 2 working days later, detailed in 9 (6), and therefore not delivered until Monday 15/1/18 at the earliest. Event date is 30/12/17 so served after 16 days instead of the required 14 days.

making this the first point means that they should just accept that and not continue down the rest.

Yes. 9 (2) (e) has not been given correctly.


You really will have to spell out the days, as above. And this must be your first point, that the PCN was neither sent, nor received, within a timeframe that could lawfully have established any keeper liability.

POPLA can't add up, they even got this one wrong (right decision but they wrongly added a day) so you MUST make it simple for them:

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showth...03#post73891603

Show us your final draft, but no expecting us to proof read every word, that's your job! Does it make sense for your case, only you know.
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s1214lang
post Sun, 18 Feb 2018 - 01:23
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QUOTE (nosferatu1001 @ Sat, 17 Feb 2018 - 21:36) *
I don’t have time to proof read. That’s your task.

As long as you’ve got the right arguments in, and you can attach evidence such as photos to show poor signs, you have the best chance. Remember, pdf upload under “other”


Proofread was probably not the right word. And I don't really expect people to check every word, I understand it is long. What I meant was to see if I mentioned the relevant points in the final-ish draft. How important do you reckon attaching images of signs is?

QUOTE (Redivi @ Sat, 17 Feb 2018 - 21:46) *
I would add in the obvious section that Euro knew at the time they sent the Notice to Keeper that it would not arrive in time and that their statement regarding POFA was false

You can also send a complaint to the DVLA along with a copy of the Notice and ask that Euro is suspended from access to the keeper database while they investigate

Also complaint to the British Parking Association


Where would it be most relevant to add the point about Euro knowing that it wouldn't arrive in time (which section of the appeal)?

So my complaint to DVLA and BPA will be saying that they sent the notice late?


QUOTE (SchoolRunMum @ Sat, 17 Feb 2018 - 22:50) *
QUOTE (ostell @ Wed, 14 Feb 2018 - 11:10) *
Make your first POFA reference the fact that it was not delivered within the relevant period of 14 days, contrary to 9 (4). Spell it out to POPLA as though they were 5 year olds. NTK posted on 11/1/18, a Thursday and therefore not delivered until 2 working days later, detailed in 9 (6), and therefore not delivered until Monday 15/1/18 at the earliest. Event date is 30/12/17 so served after 16 days instead of the required 14 days.

making this the first point means that they should just accept that and not continue down the rest.

Yes. 9 (2) (e) has not been given correctly.


You really will have to spell out the days, as above. And this must be your first point, that the PCN was neither sent, nor received, within a timeframe that could lawfully have established any keeper liability.

POPLA can't add up, they even got this one wrong (right decision but they wrongly added a day) so you MUST make it simple for them:

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showth...03#post73891603

Show us your final draft, but no expecting us to proof read every word, that's your job! Does it make sense for your case, only you know.


I did spell out the dates as above. And as I said above, proofread was probably not the right word. I just wanted to see if had covered the right points in my final-ish draft.

Thanks again to all of you for your replies.
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nosferatu1001
post Sun, 18 Feb 2018 - 06:44
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Keeper liability is the obvious place,as not sending in time means they cannot hold the keeper liable

You’re not complaining because they sent the notice too late to hold the keeper liable. You’re complaining because, at the time they generated the notice, they KNEW they were too late to hold the keeper liable,but they still claimed that they were. Ask the dvla to suspend their accesss until they can c9nfirm they have not sent out further notices making this false and misleading claim.
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s1214lang
post Yesterday, 22:18
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QUOTE (nosferatu1001 @ Sun, 18 Feb 2018 - 06:44) *
Keeper liability is the obvious place,as not sending in time means they cannot hold the keeper liable

You’re not complaining because they sent the notice too late to hold the keeper liable. You’re complaining because, at the time they generated the notice, they KNEW they were too late to hold the keeper liable,but they still claimed that they were. Ask the dvla to suspend their accesss until they can c9nfirm they have not sent out further notices making this false and misleading claim.


Thanks, will do. Should I also add that to my POPLA appeal?

My POPLA appeal is almost finalised I think, unless I’ve missed something obvious. Will probably send it out in a couple of days or so.
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ostell
post Yesterday, 22:45
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QUOTE (s1214lang @ Mon, 19 Feb 2018 - 22:18) *
My POPLA appeal is almost finalised I think, unless I’ve missed something obvious. Will probably send it out in a couple of days or so.


On here for critique before you send
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nosferatu1001
post Today, 11:40
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Yes, it is added to the POPLA appeal.

Youre not adding the complaint to the POPLA appeal.
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