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Highview Parking - Faulty Machine?
SRGills1983
post Mon, 1 Nov 2021 - 15:43
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Hi, I'd appreciate some help here.

I recently received a PCN from Highview Parking saying I hadn't paid for parking in one of the car parks they manage. Funny, thing is, I did pay and showed them a banking transaction proving so much. I thought that would be the end of the matter.

However, they wrote back saying that they had no record of the transaction and so the PCN stood. I lodged an appeal with POPLA but that got declined. I'm at a loss for words.

When I punched my licence details into the machine I got as far as the first two digits before the machine automatically jumped to the payment fee. That's the only explanation I can give as to why my licence details weren't captured by the machine.

I must have done something right as the machine generated a fee, which I duly paid!

Now Highview Parking want £90 from me and I don't think I've done anything wrong. Has this sort of thing happened to anyone else?
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post Mon, 1 Nov 2021 - 15:43
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SRGills1983
post Fri, 19 Nov 2021 - 07:06
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QUOTE (DWMB2 @ Thu, 18 Nov 2021 - 18:39) *
It's unlikely to make much difference - now that you have exhausted the appeal routes then you could simply wait to see if they commence legal action.
I assume your intention with the letter is to scare them off, but I'm not entirely convinced it would do an effective job of that. You make quite a few claims, are you confident you can back them all up with sufficient substance?

QUOTE (SRGills1983 @ Thu, 18 Nov 2021 - 18:15) *
Following advice given to me by my legal representative

Have you actually hired a legal representative? If so, they're likely to cost far more than the actual parking charge if it ends up in court. If not, don't falsely claim that you have.

QUOTE (SRGills1983 @ Thu, 18 Nov 2021 - 18:15) *
3. There are numerous recent examples of court cases that mirror the circumstances of this case, so much so that they are on surface level identical:
In all of these cases, the complainant’s case was dismissed. In some cases, legal costs and additional costs were awarded to the defendant.

Which cases? Make clear which ones you are referring to, including dates and reference numbers.

QUOTE (SRGills1983 @ Thu, 18 Nov 2021 - 18:15) *
4. I have spoken with other drivers that have received PCNs from Highview Parking in exactly the same circumstances. These drivers, who I have no connection with other than experiencing the same parking misfortune as I am currently experiencing, are willing to provide written testimony that will support my case.

Is this true?

QUOTE (SRGills1983 @ Thu, 18 Nov 2021 - 18:15) *
5. I am prepared to use Freedom of Information Request powers to further investigate

How? The Freedom of Information Act covers public authorities, so Highview wouldn't be required to respond to an FOI request.



Thanks for the feedback. I'll modify the letter accordingly. I have actually managed to find other drivers who have suffered exactly the same fate. They ended up paying the PCN because they felt they had no other option.
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holly greenfield
post Thu, 25 Nov 2021 - 11:33
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I am in a similar situation right now.

The machine failed to accept the last 3 digits of my registration number. This was a small private car park

I paid and kept the ticket. My car was picked up on ANPR and they sent me a PCN

I lost my initial appeal, because they classed it as a "major keying error". It wasn't - it was a machine error. They said they would accept £20, but I really don't want to hand over my money for something that was their fault.

Do I stick or twist.

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DWMB2
post Thu, 25 Nov 2021 - 11:36
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QUOTE (holly greenfield @ Thu, 25 Nov 2021 - 11:33) *
Do I stick or twist.

You start a new thread rather than hijacking someone else's, that way we can offer you specific advice on your issue.


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holly greenfield
post Thu, 25 Nov 2021 - 11:54
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My mistake to add "stick or twist"

It wasn't a actually a request for advice? It was intended to back up the OP, to say that he/she is not the only one.
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SRGills1983
post Tue, 30 Nov 2021 - 11:06
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QUOTE (holly greenfield @ Thu, 25 Nov 2021 - 11:54) *
My mistake to add "stick or twist"

It wasn't a actually a request for advice? It was intended to back up the OP, to say that he/she is not the only one.


Holly, thanks for your message. Would love to know more about your case. I've written to Highview Parking telling them that I won't pay the PCN (which they've now upped to £130) and that there are plenty of other drivers who have fallen foul of Machine Errors rather than been responsible for making a Minor or Major Keying Error.

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SRGills1983
post Wed, 1 Dec 2021 - 09:53
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So here's the letter I sent to Highview Parking:

Dear Sir,

Thank you for your letter dated November 10 2021. Please note that I will not pay the increased charge you have invented. I do not owe you £130 or indeed any money at all.

I note your intention to escalate this case in due course but would strongly advise you against doing so for the following reasons.

1. In the rationale provided by the POPLA assessor in rejecting my appeal, they refer to British Parking Association (BPA) code of practice section 17, which outlines general procedure for dealing with Major and Minor keying errors.

The POPLA assessor incorrectly assumes – without evidence – that I was guilty of either a Major and Minor keying error.

Highview Parking has been unable to provide any evidence that I was responsible for a Major or Minor keying error. As I have previously stated, had Highview Parking been able to produce this evidence I would have happily complied with the guidance laid out by the BPA in section 17 of its code of practice.

I have made it abundantly clear that the fault was not mine. To repeat myself once more:

A. I attempted to enter my full licence plate into the machine

B. Upon entering my first two digits, the machine jumped to the payment screen.

C. I assumed that the machine had recognised my car from those digits alone, through being the only ‘EF’ car in the car park at that time, thought no further about it and duly paid the sum requested.

2. The fault lies with a Machine error. I acted in good faith at all times. I followed the instructions given by the machine and paid the amount instructed on the screen. I was unable to enter my full licence registration details but this was not for want of trying on my part.

3. There are numerous recent examples of court cases that mirror the circumstances of this case, so much so that they are on many levels identical:

· The driver used the payment machine

· The driver acted in good faith, attempted to the best of their ability to comply with the instructions laid out by the ticket machine and was not responsible for either a Minor or Major keying error

· A fee was reached and subsequently paid

· No evidence of a Minor or Major keying error made by the driver was produced by the complainant

· A Machine error was found to be the most likely cause of the lack of an accurate record of the vehicle registration number being recorded

In all of these cases, the complainant’s case was dismissed. In some cases, legal costs and additional costs were awarded to the defendant. I am sure there are many other court cases that follow a similar trend that I can find with ease.

4. I have so far spoken with two other drivers that have received PCNs from Highview Parking in exactly the same circumstances. One driver even parked in the same car park and used the same machine as I did. In both of these cases, the drivers also insist that they were not responsible for a Minor or Major keying error, with the Machine not allowing them to input their full licence details. The drivers, who I have no connection with other than experiencing the same Highview Parking inflicted misfortune as I am currently experiencing, are willing to provide written testimony that demonstrates that the facts as I present them above are by no means unique to my case. I am sure that there are many more drivers out there who can and are willing to provide further corroborating evidence, too, and I will find them and encourage them to provide their experience in writing in full as well.

In summary, I will not be bullied into paying a charge for an error I am not responsible for. I am willing to challenge this baseless charge for as long as it takes for it to be dropped. Should that require me to attend court, I would more than welcome that opportunity.




And here's their reply:

Thank you for your correspondence regarding your recent appeal to the POPLA, the independent adjudication service, which was considered and rejected.

We are unable to reconsider the status of this charge at this stage as POPLA had reviewed your appeal and the evidence provided by both parties and they decided in our favour. Additionally, we are unable to consider any additional grounds of appeal, as the time to appeal this charge has now passed.

We also note that POPLA FAQ's clearly state "What do you do if Popla rejects your appeal? If your appeal is unsuccessful and we have refused your appeal, the parking operator will expect payment. You should pay the charge within 28 days from the day we made our decision to prevent the charge from increasing or being referred to debt collection.

Please note that no payment has been received within this deadline and that consequently this charge has increased to £130. In the event that payment of the outstanding amount is not received within 14 days from the date of this correspondence, we can confirm that this case will escalate accordingly, and further action will be taken.




What do I do now? I don't want debt collectors or bailiffs on my case.
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DWMB2
post Wed, 1 Dec 2021 - 10:20
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If you intend to fight then your only real option is to wait and see if they take the matter to court. You won't have bailiffs on your case. You will get a series of letters from debt collectors - nothing you can do to stop that, but equally nothing they can do other than send letters. The one to look out for is a 'Letter Before Claim' from the parking company or their solicitors.


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ManxRed
post Wed, 1 Dec 2021 - 10:24
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Debt Collectors are toothless and have no powers. All they can do is write you begging letters. They won't visit, they won't take legal action, they won't blemish any credit record

Bailiffs can only be involved IF it goes to court, and IF you lose, and IF you then refuse to pay the judgement within 28 days. That's a lot of 'ifs', at least one of which you are in control of anyway.



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Sometimes I use big words I don't understand in an effort to make myself sound more photosynthesis.
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nosferatu1001
post Wed, 1 Dec 2021 - 10:26
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Debt collectors? LAUGH at them. They write pathetic letters you just bin, or keep if you want to prove a course of harassment

You won't get bailiffs unless this
- goes to a court claim
- you lose, either at hearing or by not defending
- you fail to pay within 30 days
AND they've somehow gotten the claim above £600. Which they can't.

Invite them to take you to court withiut delay, where you will happily counterclaim for their harassment and breach of the DPA in continuing to process your details once it was clear the fault lies with their or their principals machines and not you the consumer. This counterclaim will be for at least £750.
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SRGills1983
post Wed, 1 Dec 2021 - 10:40
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QUOTE (DWMB2 @ Wed, 1 Dec 2021 - 10:20) *
If you intend to fight then your only real option is to wait and see if they take the matter to court. You won't have bailiffs on your case. You will get a series of letters from debt collectors - nothing you can do to stop that, but equally nothing they can do other than send letters. The one to look out for is a 'Letter Before Claim' from the parking company or their solicitors.


Thanks

QUOTE (ManxRed @ Wed, 1 Dec 2021 - 10:24) *
Debt Collectors are toothless and have no powers. All they can do is write you begging letters. They won't visit, they won't take legal action, they won't blemish any credit record

Bailiffs can only be involved IF it goes to court, and IF you lose, and IF you then refuse to pay the judgement within 28 days. That's a lot of 'ifs', at least one of which you are in control of anyway.


Thank you.

QUOTE (nosferatu1001 @ Wed, 1 Dec 2021 - 10:26) *
Debt collectors? LAUGH at them. They write pathetic letters you just bin, or keep if you want to prove a course of harassment

You won't get bailiffs unless this
- goes to a court claim
- you lose, either at hearing or by not defending
- you fail to pay within 30 days
AND they've somehow gotten the claim above £600. Which they can't.

Invite them to take you to court withiut delay, where you will happily counterclaim for their harassment and breach of the DPA in continuing to process your details once it was clear the fault lies with their or their principals machines and not you the consumer. This counterclaim will be for at least £750.


I like this approach! Is there any finer detail I need to include in my reply? i.e particular section of the DPA? Thanks for your recommendation, I really appreciate it. Would be lost without all the advice given to date.
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nosferatu1001
post Wed, 1 Dec 2021 - 10:49
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Not really - do so if you want. You can reference Vidal hall vs google from I think 2018 which was a claim against google that proved a breach of DPA is in and of itself cause for damages, yiu don't have to prove a direct monetary loss.
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SRGills1983
post Wed, 1 Dec 2021 - 16:10
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QUOTE (nosferatu1001 @ Wed, 1 Dec 2021 - 10:49) *
Not really - do so if you want. You can reference Vidal hall vs google from I think 2018 which was a claim against google that proved a breach of DPA is in and of itself cause for damages, yiu don't have to prove a direct monetary loss.


Dear Sir,

Thank you for your recent correspondence regarding this PCN. With regard to your threat of “further action” and escalating matters “accordingly”, I invite you to take me to court without delay.
Please note that should you proceed with this course of action, I will counterclaim for harassment and clear breach of the Data Protection Act, which you are contravening by continuing to process my details despite it being abundantly clear that I demonstrably did all I could to comply with the contract I entered into with Highview Parking when I parked my vehicle at the car park in Chatham, Kent, and any failure to adhere to the Terms and Conditions lies with Highview Parking and/or the parking machines provided and not in any way with myself.
This counterclaim will be for at least £750.

Sincerely,


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nosferatu1001
post Wed, 1 Dec 2021 - 16:50
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I would state more clearly that they must not process yiur data, and that's one basis for a counterclaim.
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