PePiPoo Helping the motorist get justice

Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

PCN issued at 70151 station road newham london while the machine was faulty, PCN issued while the machine was faulty
boxer29
post Sat, 20 Apr 2019 - 17:49
Post #1


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 148
Joined: 9 Nov 2006
Member No.: 8,832



while visiting London and staying in a flat I parked my car in the station road and tried to pay but the machine lcd was giving an error message, I did not had any other option to download the paybyphone app pay with this ,the car ticket expired at around 16.45 and I tried to extend the time by extending the ticket by paying more but the app failed to take money by giving me a message that my parking can not be extended at 16.56.
I tried to move my car but it was sandwiched in two cars so cant move. To my surprise when I saw the parking attended standing next to the car I told him I tried all option to pay and move the car and he can see that I was in no position to move the car as the cars parked in front and rear were so close that it was impossible to move my car without damaging.
the front car was parked in the e charging bay and the vehicle behind was in the bay as it was a parking bay for two cars and the front bays were for the e charging cars.
I have taken all the photos of the machine and a screen shot of my app which will not allow me to extend my parking.
the parking fine was issued at 17.13 and I tried to pay with the app at 16.56 which came with an error "your parking cannot be extended."
I don't want to pay the 80 pounds fine now as I tried my best to extend the parking time by paying the amount for 2 hours which is 3 pounds.
I also rang the parking company and explained to them about the events as I also explained to the parking attended putting the ticket on my car. but he said he has issued the ticket and I can only appeal against it now.
any help how do I complaint about this





This post has been edited by boxer29: Sat, 20 Apr 2019 - 17:50
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
6 Pages V   1 2 3 > »   
Start new topic
Replies (1 - 19)
Advertisement
post Sat, 20 Apr 2019 - 17:49
Post #


Advertise here!









Go to the top of the page
 
Quote Post
stamfordman
post Sat, 20 Apr 2019 - 17:54
Post #2


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 11,599
Joined: 12 Feb 2013
From: London
Member No.: 59,924



let's see the council pics. Can't read PCN - pic too small.

Put pics on https://imgbb.com or such like.

I cannot work out how you paid.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
boxer29
post Sat, 20 Apr 2019 - 18:12
Post #3


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 148
Joined: 9 Nov 2006
Member No.: 8,832



the other images for your information
of the machine and tried to pay twice but cant extend the time









QUOTE (stamfordman @ Sat, 20 Apr 2019 - 18:54) *
let's see the council pics. Can't read PCN - pic too small.

Put pics on https://imgbb.com or such like.

I cannot work out how you paid.


I paid via the I phone app paybyphone twice

https://ibb.co/DGdxD99

https://ibb.co/7V2sdGz

machine faulty pic
https://ibb.co/tbFxNzM

https://ibb.co/w7hpRz1


Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
stamfordman
post Sat, 20 Apr 2019 - 18:29
Post #4


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 11,599
Joined: 12 Feb 2013
From: London
Member No.: 59,924



Fatal error - we're all hoping Newham will really make one one day.

Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
2cupsofcoffee
post Sat, 20 Apr 2019 - 19:25
Post #5


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 573
Joined: 11 Jun 2009
Member No.: 29,449




"I did not had any other option to download the paybyphone app pay with this ,the car ticket expired at around 16.45 and I tried to extend the time by extending the ticket by paying more but the app failed to take money by giving me a message that my parking can not be extended at 16.56."

So you downloaded the app, paid for x hours, then tried to extend the parking time - is that correct?

On the machine it says maximum stay of 2 hours and no return within one hour - which is probably why you couldn't extend your parking time. Do you also have photos showing your car blocked in?
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
boxer29
post Sat, 20 Apr 2019 - 19:38
Post #6


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 148
Joined: 9 Nov 2006
Member No.: 8,832



QUOTE (2cupsofcoffee @ Sat, 20 Apr 2019 - 20:25) *
"I did not had any other option to download the paybyphone app pay with this ,the car ticket expired at around 16.45 and I tried to extend the time by extending the ticket by paying more but the app failed to take money by giving me a message that my parking can not be extended at 16.56."

So you downloaded the app, paid for x hours, then tried to extend the parking time - is that correct?

On the machine it says maximum stay of 2 hours and no return within one hour - which is probably why you couldn't extend your parking time. Do you also have photos showing your car blocked in?

yes I do have the pictures
the sign don't say no return within one hour, its says max stay 2 hours

https://ibb.co/2v7W4tK
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
2cupsofcoffee
post Sat, 20 Apr 2019 - 20:01
Post #7


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 573
Joined: 11 Jun 2009
Member No.: 29,449



Boxer, yes that photo does look tight, and after squinting at the sign behind the cars I can't see anything about no return (can you post a bigger pic of just that sign just for clarity?) but it DOES say max stay 2 hours.

On the actual ticket machine, condition of use 8 says no return within one hour.

I think you might have to try using being boxed in,but again, wait for more experienced people to comment. In the meantime, please post a larger image of the front AND back of the actual ticket - there may be mistakes.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
boxer29
post Sat, 20 Apr 2019 - 22:08
Post #8


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 148
Joined: 9 Nov 2006
Member No.: 8,832



QUOTE (2cupsofcoffee @ Sat, 20 Apr 2019 - 21:01) *
Boxer, yes that photo does look tight, and after squinting at the sign behind the cars I can't see anything about no return (can you post a bigger pic of just that sign just for clarity?) but it DOES say max stay 2 hours.

On the actual ticket machine, condition of use 8 says no return within one hour.

I think you might have to try using being boxed in,but again, wait for more experienced people to comment. In the meantime, please post a larger image of the front AND back of the actual ticket - there may be mistakes.

Thanks for your quick reply, I am uploading the big size pcn and the sign post, the back of the PCN I haven't done as I think it would be a universal one.

https://ibb.co/LQ5ScPY


https://ibb.co/K9dZMBJ

will wait for the seniors to help me how to draft a letter for this incidence.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Mad Mick V
post Sat, 20 Apr 2019 - 22:55
Post #9


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 7,859
Joined: 28 Mar 2007
Member No.: 11,355



If the original parking period expired and the OP has tried to extend it then the app is correct in refusing an extension payment. It defaults to a vehicle "returning" to park. In other words once the original parking period expired the vehicle cannot be parked in that spot for a set period.

Since the signs in that road all relate to pay by phone, reference to a ticket m/c is a red herring.

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.5536548,0...3312!8i6656

We have had this with Camden where there is a no return condition (regardless of the fact that the vehicle hasn't moved!).

Mick

This post has been edited by Mad Mick V: Sat, 20 Apr 2019 - 23:02
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
boxer29
post Sat, 20 Apr 2019 - 23:37
Post #10


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 148
Joined: 9 Nov 2006
Member No.: 8,832



QUOTE (Mad Mick V @ Sat, 20 Apr 2019 - 23:55) *
If the original parking period expired and the OP has tried to extend it then the app is correct in refusing an extension payment. It defaults to a vehicle "returning" to park. In other words once the original parking period expired the vehicle cannot be parked in that spot for a set period.

Since the signs in that road all relate to pay by phone, reference to a ticket m/c is a red herring.

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.5536548,0...3312!8i6656

We have had this with Camden where there is a no return condition (regardless of the fact that the vehicle hasn't moved!).

Mick


your sign is different to mine
mine did not say no return within 1 hour or 2 hours, here is a picture of the sign.

<a href="https://ibb.co/LQ5ScPY"><img src="https://i.ibb.co/xmHhBsX/sign.jpg" alt="sign" border="0"></a><br /><a target='_blank' href='https://freeonlinedice.com/'>make a toss</a><br />



make a toss

This post has been edited by boxer29: Sat, 20 Apr 2019 - 23:38
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
cp8759
post Sun, 21 Apr 2019 - 01:11
Post #11


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 13,730
Joined: 3 Dec 2010
Member No.: 42,618



Your strongest grounds is going to be that the vehicle could not be moved due to reasons beyond the control of the driver. I wouldn't bother mentioning the unsuccessful attempt to extend the parking session as it's not really relevant and could be counterproductive. What is relevant is that when it came to having to move the car, due to the expiration of the paid parking period, the vehicle was boxed in and could not be moved.

At what time did you eventually move the car?


--------------------
I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
No, I am not a lawyer.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
boxer29
post Sun, 21 Apr 2019 - 05:40
Post #12


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 148
Joined: 9 Nov 2006
Member No.: 8,832



QUOTE (cp8759 @ Sun, 21 Apr 2019 - 02:11) *
Your strongest grounds is going to be that the vehicle could not be moved due to reasons beyond the control of the driver. I wouldn't bother mentioning the unsuccessful attempt to extend the parking session as it's not really relevant and could be counterproductive. What is relevant is that when it came to having to move the car, due to the expiration of the paid parking period, the vehicle was boxed in and could not be moved.

At what time did you eventually move the car?

Thanks for your reply,
It’s a good point that the car was boxed in and couldn’t be moved. I did mention this to the person who gave the PCN,and asked not to issue a PCN but he said its already been issued and I can appeal
I will wait for others to respond then with there help draft a statement to challenge the pcn

This post has been edited by boxer29: Sun, 21 Apr 2019 - 05:43
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
hcandersen
post Sun, 21 Apr 2019 - 07:19
Post #13


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 25,068
Joined: 2 Aug 2008
From: Woking
Member No.: 21,551



The PCN states 'Parked after the expiry of paid for time'.

Nowt to do with returning within an hour, so park this and concentrate on the alleged contravention.

Were you at 17.13 and between 17.02 and 17.13 parked without payment of the charge? Yes.

Was there a ticket in your windscreen relevant to an immediately preceding period? Yes.

Then prima facie the contravention is established.

You have to provide a defence.

At present you appear to have two related to the circumstances: you tried to pay and you could not move out of contravention. Actually IMO these can be linked if the timings are correct and could succeed if you place the emphasis on the right one.

At present your account is all over the place and inconsistent. But that's history.



Pl tell me what is wrong with this:
I parked at *** and paid for 2 hours;
At ** I tried to purchase further parking time;
The **** app rejected my attempt to pay.
I went to my car to move it out of the parking place and arrived there *** minutes before/after my time expired.
**** this part baffles me: what is the link between the m/c and your app? Anyway,
I found my car boxed in. I tried to move but could not; I tried to pay, but was not allowed.
Not so much caught between a rock and a hard place as between the idiot in front and the one behind.

But where are your photos showing you unable to move at 17.13, the time of contravention?

And when you fill n the gaps, do not mention max parking time, it is not relevant as present. This is for the authority to argue i.e. we see your photos and believe you could have moved. That you could not pay is not a valid argument because you had parked for the maximum period allowed.

But this is for them, NOT you, so let's deal with your argument.




Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Mad Mick V
post Sun, 21 Apr 2019 - 08:28
Post #14


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 7,859
Joined: 28 Mar 2007
Member No.: 11,355



OP---use this one for the boxed in bit.
2180029903

In this case Mr. Marriott appeals on the basis that he was prevented from moving his vehicle during permitted hours, so that it would not remain in situ during restricted hours, due to circumstances outside his control, namely that he was ‘boxed in’ by vehicles either side of him. It is regrettable that the enforcement authority (EA) has not seen fit to provide the traffic management order so that I can analyse the wording of its exceptions. Accordingly, I proceed on the basis that common sense would dictate that where a vehicle is prevented from moving by circumstances beyond the owner’s control then it would fall within an exception to the prohibition on parking on a restricted street during prescribed hours. Plainly it would be for the party seeking to rely on the exception to prove, on the balance of probabilities, that s/he fell within it.

Notably, two days before this alleged contravention, Mr. Marriott observed that his vehicle had been ‘boxed in’ after he had parked it there. He took photographs of the situation and informed the EA. He was thereafter given a penalty charge notice (PCN) on that occasion but has heard no more of it, so he assumed the EA has decided not to issue a notice to owner. This PCN was issued two days later, Mr. Marriott having kept the EA informed of his predicament in the meantime, and not, on his account, having been able to move the car. He took the view that it was impossible for him to move it. The credibility of Mr. Marriott’s account is enhanced, in my view, by the honesty he showed in having told the EA two days beforehand, and before having been issued with the first PCN, of his situation. Ultimately, however, although Mr. Marriott’s own view as to whether he was unable to move his car is significant, I must decide whether he was, objectively, correct.

The EA says that the photographic evidence of the vehicle in situ on the occasion of this alleged contravention shows that Mr. Marriott did, in fact, have enough room to manoeuvre his car before the period of restricted hours and, thus, he was not prevented from moving by circumstances beyond his control. It points, in particular, to a photograph of the rear of the vehicle which appears to show a gap between it and the adjacent car. In my view, having looked at the photographic evidence as a whole, that single photograph, taken from an angle, is somewhat deceptive as to the space actually available. Other photographs show the vehicle ‘boxed in’. It is my finding, on the evidence as a whole, and particularly the EA’s photographic evidence, that cars had parked next to Mr. Marriott’s vehicle in such close proximity that it was simply impossible for him to manoeuvre out of that space until at least one of them had gone. Those were circumstances beyond his control. I am satisfied, therefore, that an exception applies to this situation and the contravention is not proved.
----------------------
Mick
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
boxer29
post Sun, 21 Apr 2019 - 09:57
Post #15


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 148
Joined: 9 Nov 2006
Member No.: 8,832



QUOTE (hcandersen @ Sun, 21 Apr 2019 - 08:19) *
The PCN states 'Parked after the expiry of paid for time'.

Nowt to do with returning within an hour, so park this and concentrate on the alleged contravention.

Were you at 17.13 and between 17.02 and 17.13 parked without payment of the charge? Yes.

Was there a ticket in your windscreen relevant to an immediately preceding period? Yes.

Then prima facie the contravention is established.

You have to provide a defence.

At present you appear to have two related to the circumstances: you tried to pay and you could not move out of contravention. Actually IMO these can be linked if the timings are correct and could succeed if you place the emphasis on the right one.

At present your account is all over the place and inconsistent. But that's history.



Pl tell me what is wrong with this:
I parked at *** and paid for 2 hours;
At ** I tried to purchase further parking time;
The **** app rejected my attempt to pay.
I went to my car to move it out of the parking place and arrived there *** minutes before/after my time expired.
**** this part baffles me: what is the link between the m/c and your app? Anyway,
I found my car boxed in. I tried to move but could not; I tried to pay, but was not allowed.
Not so much caught between a rock and a hard place as between the idiot in front and the one behind.

But where are your photos showing you unable to move at 17.13, the time of contravention?

And when you fill n the gaps, do not mention max parking time, it is not relevant as present. This is for the authority to argue i.e. we see your photos and believe you could have moved. That you could not pay is not a valid argument because you had parked for the maximum period allowed.

But this is for them, NOT you, so let's deal with your argument.


at around 17:13 I was talking to the parking attendend trying to explain to him that mycar cant move out of this boxed position so that he might not issue a pcn but he said that he had already completed the ticket and I can appeal now.
I have got a pic of him leaving which I took at 17:18 when he is leaving the scene.


Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Neil B
post Sun, 21 Apr 2019 - 12:53
Post #16


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 21,852
Joined: 16 Jan 2008
Member No.: 16,671



Can I just ask, out of pure curiosity, why you needed to park in that street?


--------------------
QUOTE (DancingDad @ Fri, 11 May 2018 - 12:30) *
Neil is good at working backwards.

Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
hcandersen
post Sun, 21 Apr 2019 - 12:57
Post #17


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 25,068
Joined: 2 Aug 2008
From: Woking
Member No.: 21,551



And the photos of you being boxed in?
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
cp8759
post Sun, 21 Apr 2019 - 14:19
Post #18


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 13,730
Joined: 3 Dec 2010
Member No.: 42,618



QUOTE (hcandersen @ Sun, 21 Apr 2019 - 13:57) *
And the photos of you being boxed in?

Post 6


--------------------
I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
No, I am not a lawyer.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
hcandersen
post Sun, 21 Apr 2019 - 14:54
Post #19


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 25,068
Joined: 2 Aug 2008
From: Woking
Member No.: 21,551



And the council's photos with timings?

You posted: I have got a pic of him leaving which I took at 17:18 when he is leaving the scene.


It would therefore follow that your photo of being boxed in would show the PCN, but I cannot see it.

You have to establish that your photo, which clearly shows you boxed in, shows the situation at the time the PCN was issued.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
boxer29
post Sun, 21 Apr 2019 - 15:32
Post #20


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 148
Joined: 9 Nov 2006
Member No.: 8,832



QUOTE (hcandersen @ Sun, 21 Apr 2019 - 15:54) *
And the council's photos with timings?

You posted: I have got a pic of him leaving which I took at 17:18 when he is leaving the scene.


It would therefore follow that your photo of being boxed in would show the PCN, but I cannot see it.

You have to establish that your photo, which clearly shows you boxed in, shows the situation at the time the PCN was issued.


I had the pcn in my hand and later I put it in the car, that's why you cant see it, the pcn issuer also understand that I was boxed in as I asked him how would I get out this tight position.
I argued with him for about 5-6 min trying to explain my position which I think he understood as well, but he said that the pcn has been issued and you need to appeal.
that's why I till the photos of the car being boxed in with the pcn which I have posted it here.

any more clarification you guys need before with your help I need to finalize the draft of the appeal.
thanks for all your help

ps how can I see the council proof of the PCN

This post has been edited by boxer29: Sun, 21 Apr 2019 - 15:33
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post

6 Pages V   1 2 3 > » 
Reply to this topicStart new topic
1 User(s) are reading this topic (1 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members:

 



Advertisement

Advertise here!

RSS Lo-Fi Version Time is now: Monday, 14th October 2019 - 14:24
Pepipoo uses cookies. You can find details of the cookies we use here along with links to information on how to manage them.
Please click the button to accept our cookies and hide this message. We’ll also assume that you’re happy to accept them if you continue to use the site.