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First class post v E mail v online.
cabbyman
post Thu, 17 Jan 2019 - 17:52
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What are the available proofs of delivery available for:

1) First class post with certificate of posting from the Post Office Counter.

2) E mail.

3) Online form completion.

How easy would it be to contest delivery for each method, in court?



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post Thu, 17 Jan 2019 - 17:52
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southpaw82
post Thu, 17 Jan 2019 - 18:18
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That will vary depending upon the applicable rules, the purpose and the facts.


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cabbyman
post Thu, 17 Jan 2019 - 19:21
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My main interest is in connection with private parking tickets.

I am concerned that appeals by E mail or online forms could be denied by some of the more unscrupulous PPCs.

Are you aware of any court cases or legislation that gives electronic forms a similar status to the service of NtKs by first class post as shown in PoFA sched 4, inter alia sec 8(6), 9(6)?

Is it a general principle that first class post is deemed delivered in two working days unless evidenced to the contrary?


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The Rookie
post Thu, 17 Jan 2019 - 20:24
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There are no ‘rules’, as such you can neither comply or not!


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cabbyman
post Thu, 17 Jan 2019 - 20:28
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???


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The Rookie
post Thu, 17 Jan 2019 - 21:24
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Appealing a private parking ticket is not part of a legal process, there is no specified means of appealing or even that you have to appeal, nor that there are any implications of not appealing, it is, after all, just an invoice, as such if you appeal you can use any method that suited you.


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Redivi
post Fri, 18 Jan 2019 - 00:16
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Small Claims court decides on the balance of probabilities - better than 50:50
It doesn't need forensic standards of proof

Letter : Free certificate of sending from Post Office. First class deemed delivered two business days later unless PPC proves it wasn't
Email : Blind copy to a second address. Court can assume that copy to PPC was received
On-line : Screenshots of appeal and acknowledgement
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southpaw82
post Fri, 18 Jan 2019 - 00:20
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QUOTE (Redivi @ Fri, 18 Jan 2019 - 00:16) *
Small Claims court decides on the balance of probabilities - better than 50:50
It doesn't need forensic standards of proof

Letter : Free certificate of sending from Post Office. First class deemed delivered two business days later unless PPC proves it wasn't
Email : Blind copy to a second address. Court can assume that copy to PPC was received
On-line : Screenshots of appeal and acknowledgement

Almost all civil claims are decided on the balance of probabilities, that is no different in small claims as it is in the High Court. And it certainly does need a “forensic standard of proof”, which simply means proof in court on the balance of probabilities.

What authority are you using to say that a letter is deemed delivered two days later - there are several and each depends on the circumstances.


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The Rookie
post Fri, 18 Jan 2019 - 05:56
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I’m not aware of any statute that states a response to an invoice is delivered two days later.


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Ocelot
post Fri, 18 Jan 2019 - 13:04
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For email (depending on the software) you may be able to include a read receipt request.
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Dave65
post Sat, 26 Jan 2019 - 10:41
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Yes, and could some of these PPC not click the read receipt box and delete it?
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peterguk
post Sat, 26 Jan 2019 - 10:46
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QUOTE (Dave65 @ Sat, 26 Jan 2019 - 10:41) *
Yes, and could some of these PPC not click the read receipt box and delete it?


Of couse they can. I do every time.


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notmeatloaf
post Sat, 26 Jan 2019 - 14:49
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Sending emails is not a one way process like a letter. Your email provider hops across servers to the receiving mail server, then basically does sone two way chat which will end with a 250 response which means the receiving server has accepted the email for delivery.

CODE
S: 220 smtp.server.com Simple Mail Transfer Service Ready
C: HELO client.example.com
S: 250 Hello client.example.com
C: MAIL FROM:<mail@samlogic.com>
S: 250 OK
C: RCPT TO:<john@mail.com>
S: 250 OK
C: DATA
S: 354 Send message content; end with <CRLF>.<CRLF>
C: <The message data (body text, subject, e-mail header, attachments etc) is sent>
C: .
S: 250 OK, message accepted for delivery: queued as 12345
C: QUIT
S: 221 Bye


Essentially you can't prove it was delivered to an account, but you can prove that if they didn't receive it, it is the fault of their email provider. It's a lot more than normal post.
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DastardlyDick
post Sat, 26 Jan 2019 - 15:25
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QUOTE (cabbyman @ Thu, 17 Jan 2019 - 19:21) *
Is it a general principle that first class post is deemed delivered in two working days unless evidenced to the contrary?


If you can prove (by means of a Certificate of Posting) that you have posted a letter, then "presumption of service" is that it is delivered two working days later. Obviously, it would be difficult to "prove" non-delivery, unless the sorting office burnt down for example.
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southpaw82
post Sat, 26 Jan 2019 - 15:34
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QUOTE (DastardlyDick @ Sat, 26 Jan 2019 - 15:25) *
QUOTE (cabbyman @ Thu, 17 Jan 2019 - 19:21) *
Is it a general principle that first class post is deemed delivered in two working days unless evidenced to the contrary?


If you can prove (by means of a Certificate of Posting) that you have posted a letter, then "presumption of service" is that it is delivered two working days later. Obviously, it would be difficult to "prove" non-delivery, unless the sorting office burnt down for example.

Where does that presumption come from?


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andy_foster
post Sat, 26 Jan 2019 - 18:25
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Apologies to those that appear to enjoy 'playing with their food', but there is no overarching statutory presumption of service, but there are statutory presumptions of service in certain circumstances - primarily under s. 7 of the Interpretation Act 1978 - which applies "[w]here an Act authorises or requires any document to be served by post".


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southpaw82
post Sat, 26 Jan 2019 - 18:37
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QUOTE (andy_foster @ Sat, 26 Jan 2019 - 18:25) *
Apologies to those that appear to enjoy 'playing with their food'

Or, alternatively, are open to being told something they don’t already know.


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