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Civil Enforcement Without Prejudice Save As to Costs
alan05
post Sun, 21 Feb 2021 - 21:36
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Registered Keeper received the attached letter from Civil Enforcement about an incident in 2018.

https://imgur.com/a/iiPZcnS

No NtK or any other letter ever received prior to this, just this letter now saying that a CCJ was recently obtained against Registered Keeper along with a form "Application for order that debtor attend court for questioning".

Any help will be fully appreciated as the Registered Keeper is a bit worried at this point because they want to avoid any CCJs. I do not know how to proceed, I tried searching the forum for similar cases but I was not able to find the right information.

Thank you in advance

This post has been edited by alan05: Sun, 21 Feb 2021 - 22:55
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post Sun, 21 Feb 2021 - 21:36
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Umkomaas
post Sun, 21 Feb 2021 - 21:50
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Check the veracity of this 'CCJ' with the Northampton CCBC in the morning.

Why haven't you received other communications, but you've now received this letter. If you still have the same vehicle, what is the address shown on the V5C (logbook), current one, or a previous one? Please check, don't guess/assume.
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alan05
post Sun, 21 Feb 2021 - 21:52
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Hi thanks for response, all details address and vehicle have not been changed for years. I am unaware as to why the Registered Keeper has not received anything else from them in the past. Regards

This post has been edited by alan05: Sun, 21 Feb 2021 - 22:55
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Sheffield Dave
post Sun, 21 Feb 2021 - 22:06
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The first thing is to contact the court to ask about the status of this case - especially the description of the claim and the date of the judgement, and whether its beyond the 1 month where you can pay without getting your credit rating damaged for the next 6 years. Don't pay CEL yet (or possibly at all) - this won't fix your credit rating and may make it unfixable.

Also send a SAR to CEL to get any paperwork they have on you (including the initial NtK).

Has the registered keeper moved in the last 3 years or so, and if so did they update the the keeper's address with the DVLA in a timely fashion (this a separate thing than changing a driver's licence address - both have to be independently updated)?

If an old address was on the V5C at the time of parking, then the initial NtK and all subsequent paperwork is likely to have gone to that address, including potentially the court claim. Quite possibly only now have they used a tracing service to track you down - they should have done this before raising a court claim. If mail was going to an old address, did you have any forwarding set up and/or was the next occupant likely to have forwarded mail for you?

If they sent the claim to the wrong address then you have a strong case for a set-aside: this basically resets the case and it gets tried all over again, but this time with an active defendant. It costs £250 for a set-aside but you're likely to get this back if you win (and arguably even if you don't win if it was their fault for sending the claim to the wrong address). Alternatively if you don't mind paying up and just want your credit rating fixed, then you could try getting CEL to agree to an uncontested set-aside: you pay CEL £100 plus the £200+ they originally demanded, and your credit gets fixed.

Do you have any idea what the original parking "offence" might have been? (If not, you'll have to wait for CEL to reply.)
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alan05
post Sun, 21 Feb 2021 - 22:24
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Hi Dave,

I have just sent an email to CCBC with all details, including the letter received, to check for this CCJ or anything else under the Registered Keeper's name.

The address has not been changed for over 5 years so it's not a case of letters being sent to the wrong address. I am unaware as to why they have not sent anything else but the Registered Keeper would have received it if they did send.

The original parking offence has been that the driver of the vehicle stopped at a super market car park for 5-10 mins for a phone call and then drove off.

Please bear in mind they have not received any papers from Court yet

This post has been edited by alan05: Sun, 21 Feb 2021 - 22:56
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ostell
post Sun, 21 Feb 2021 - 22:40
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What is the address on the V5?

Bow do you know about a phone call? Indeed how do you know any of the details?
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alan05
post Sun, 21 Feb 2021 - 22:45
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I'm not going to post the address here publicly. It's the correct address of the registered keeper.

I have been told by the driver about the details of the incident.

This post has been edited by alan05: Sun, 21 Feb 2021 - 22:46
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ostell
post Sun, 21 Feb 2021 - 22:58
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So the driver got a ticket on the windscreen.

Is the date on the V5 before the date of the alleged breach?

Respond stating that this is the first that you have heard on this matter.

And send a SAR https://legalbeagles.info/library/guides_an...access-request/

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alan05
post Sun, 21 Feb 2021 - 23:01
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Thank you ostell, I have just finished sending a SAR to dataprotectionofficer@ce-service.co.uk hopefully they receive emails on this address and respond. I was unable to find any other contact details on their website. Should I also send an actual letter to them just in case?

The driver did not get any ticket on the windscreen but did indeed notice the parking attendant filing the ticket.

The date on the V5 is before the breach, since the breach the correct address is on the V5 so any letters should have been received.

QUOTE
Respond stating that this is the first that you have heard on this matter.

Where do you suggest I respond? The website has no contact details apart from an address and a phone number. Appeal process is not working for this PCN number.

Thanks

This post has been edited by alan05: Sun, 21 Feb 2021 - 23:12
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ostell
post Sun, 21 Feb 2021 - 23:19
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So a letter sent first class with a certificate of posting from a post office. You can also include the SAR
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alan05
post Mon, 1 Mar 2021 - 13:58
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I called CCBC and I found out that the CCJ is registered since June 2019 however the Registered Keeper has not received any court papers since then, which was a bit strange for the operator on the phone as well. She sent an email over with details for "APPLICATION - Set Judgment Aside (N244)".

Unfortunately CEL has not responded to the SAR yet.

Registered Keeper wouldn't mind paying to clear the CCJ or take any actions required. Can you please help on how they should proceed?
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The Rookie
post Mon, 1 Mar 2021 - 14:29
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Paying now will NOT clear the CCJ.

You can enter a set aside 'contested' where you then intend to defend (£255), or an 'uncontested' where you agree with CE you will pay them the amount awarded (£100).


--------------------
There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
Rookies 1-0 Kent

Council PCN's
Rookies 1-0 Warwick
Rookies 1-0 Birmingham

PPC PCN's
Rookies 10-0 PPC's
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alan05
post Mon, 1 Mar 2021 - 14:32
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Thanks I understand, what actions must be taken to make CEL agree on an uncontested set aside? I would appreciate the direction.

RK wouldn't mind going with the contested option too, but it seems like it's going to be difficult to prove that they have not received any letters prior to this since no address change. Unless you can suggest alternative defence. Waiting on the SAR too.

This post has been edited by alan05: Mon, 1 Mar 2021 - 14:36
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Jlc
post Mon, 1 Mar 2021 - 15:27
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They are notoriously difficult to speak to - only letters will do.

If contested then the Judge will likely take the defendant's word that the letters didn't arrive - the usual reason is they've used a previous address (either because v5 not updated or in the process of being so).


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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alan05
post Mon, 1 Mar 2021 - 19:10
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Thanks for your response Jlc. I am only a bit confused because the address has not been changed on the V5 for the last 6 years since 2015. So the RK cannot claim that the documents were served to a wrong address? However, honestly they have not received anything prior to the CCJ letter from CEL and not even court papers since the CCJ was registered.

This post has been edited by alan05: Mon, 1 Mar 2021 - 19:16
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alan05
post Tue, 2 Mar 2021 - 21:58
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Status
- SAR sent to CEL in both e-mail and first class letter
- In progress of completing N244.

I am looking to include the following Draft Order; please let me know if anything needs changing.

QUOTE
DRAFT ORDER

IN THE COUNTY COURT AT: 03/03/2021

Civil Enforcement Limited

And

xxx

CLAIM No: xxx

IT IS ORDERED that:

1. The default judgment dated __/06/2019 to be set aside.

2. Costs to be reserved.

3. Unless the Claimant serves a copy of the claim form on the Defendant by 4pm on __/__/21 paragraph 2 shall cease to have effect and the Claimant shall pay the Defendant's costs summarily assessed at £255 and the claim shall be struck out.

4. If the Claimant serves the claim form as directed in paragraph 3 the Defendant shall file and serve a defense by 4pm on __/__/2021.

5. Should the Claimant discontinue the Claim after the CCJ is set aside, paragraph 2 shall cease to have effect and the Claimant shall pay the Defendant's costs summarily assessed at £255 plus the Defendant's costs for attending the hearing.

6. All enforcement to be put on hold pending the outcome of the application.


However I am still not sure what to include in the defence later. I've been checking this forum and MSE and I did find some templates indeed. I am looking for direction on the specific case since it's not a case of changing addresses.

Also not sure what date to type in 3. and 4.

I am not a law professional and it can be quite intimidating for me, trying to help the RK to avoid this unfair CCJ so any advice would be appreciated because time is running and I try not to delay this further?

Thanks in advance

This post has been edited by alan05: Tue, 2 Mar 2021 - 22:28
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ostell
post Tue, 2 Mar 2021 - 22:42
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Nothing really to work on for a defence to the original charge. The original PCN would help.
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alan05
post Wed, 3 Mar 2021 - 16:45
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Thanks hopefully they will respond to SAR promptly and get some more information.

In the meantime, can someone suggest how CEL should be approached to check their willingness for an uncontested set-aside? RK is prepared to proceed with the contested set aside, but they would like to examine the possibility of uncontested set aside to save time. Just need to make sure that they will get the CCJ removed after they paid?

This post has been edited by alan05: Wed, 3 Mar 2021 - 16:48
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freddy1
post Wed, 3 Mar 2021 - 22:02
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when you spoke with the courts , did you ask for a copy of the claim form , did you ask what address it was sent to ?

somewhere back in mists of time the DVLA may have made a typo when releasing your info , or indeed the parking co may have made one
you should have recieved several letters from the court , if not , where have they been sent to?
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alan05
post Thu, 4 Mar 2021 - 17:17
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QUOTE (freddy1 @ Wed, 3 Mar 2021 - 22:02) *
when you spoke with the courts , did you ask for a copy of the claim form , did you ask what address it was sent to ?

somewhere back in mists of time the DVLA may have made a typo when releasing your info , or indeed the parking co may have made one
you should have recieved several letters from the court , if not , where have they been sent to?

Unfortunately, being a bit overwhelmed I forgot to ask this (I know silly but I am learning as I go) but I have sent an e-mail to CCBC asking which address it was sent to so I am waiting for an answer.

QUOTE
Dear Sir or Madam,

I am writing in regards to your PCN xxxxxxxxx and the CCJ you obtained with claim number xxxxxxxx.

I would like to let you know that I have never received any previous communication from you regarding your charge since 2018 and I have never received any paperwork from the Court regarding this matter so unfortunately, I never had the chance to properly challenge this claim.

An N244 Application for a contested set-aside has been completed and I wanted to bring to your awareness that I am ready to challenge this claim in Court. However, I would like to invite you to an uncontested set-aside in which I agree to pay you the amount requested (203.19 GBP) + 100 GBP to cover your costs for the set aside.

If you agree and would like to proceed with this offer, please respond and confirm to me in writing that you will proceed with the uncontested set aside, take necessary steps to remove this judgment from my record and also provide instructions on how to proceed with payment. I will be waiting for a response to my message within 7 days, alternatively I will be proceeding with the contested set-aside option in Court as I am looking to get this resolved.

Kind regards

Is this message to CEL for uncontested set aside looking good? Anything I forgot to add?

This post has been edited by alan05: Thu, 4 Mar 2021 - 17:22
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