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Help with Wright Hassall, Threads merged
alexsyl
post Tue, 12 Apr 2016 - 08:13
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Hi all,

Apologies in advance - I'm new here and I know there are countless topics regarding these issues but I'm not sure what to do next.

In November 2015 I parked in the Abbey Walk car park in Selby (the Sainsburys one, in case anyone knows it). It was always free to park and is close to the town centre, as I was meeting a couple of friends for some food there. I arrived at around 7pm ish and left around 10.30.

I didn't think anything of it, so imagine my surprise when I received a letter from ZZPS dated 19th February 2016 saying I had an unpaid parking fine from the above. Turns out this car park is now managed by Vehicle Control Services on an ANPR sheme, which is not exactly well publicised (and by that I mean I couldnt see any signs up in the car park regarding said parking restrictions). I had never received any prior correspondence from VCS to advise that I had a parking fine or anything like that.

I wrote to both ZZPS and VCS, on the same day, disputing the charge as I had never received any prior notification and therefore could not appeal within the initial given period. I did originally research on here and a couple of other websites to help me gain some content for said letters, so said that I would not pay ZZPS as it's all speculative invoices, is not a genuine pre-estimate of loss, and there is significant lack of signage in the car park to show the parking restrictions.

I got the usual templated b*llocks letter back, refusing to answer any of my points that I raised, so I wrote to them again to deny the debt to ZZPS and refuse to deal with ZZPS, and demanded they respond fully to the issues and points that I raised in my initial letter, saying that if I didnt hear from them within 14 days then I'd consider the matter closed.

So, yesterday, I receive a letter in the post from Wright Hassall, dated 29th March (but only arrived yesterday - convenient?) - which I have scanned and attached. This looks different to the usual WH templated letters that I have seen people posting about on here and elsewhere - so I am completely unsure how to respond.

Obviously I want to completely stand my ground and have no intention of paying this - I'm just worried about it getting to the CCJ stage.

Is there anyone who could please provide me with some help on how to respond to this WH letter? I'm a bit of a newbie with these kinds of things so anything in laymans terms would be much appreciated.

Thank you!

This post has been edited by alexsyl: Mon, 18 Apr 2016 - 11:12
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post Tue, 12 Apr 2016 - 08:13
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alexsyl
post Thu, 29 Jun 2017 - 08:19
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Thanks for confirming nosferatu. Does the below letter sound reasonable then?

Dear BW Legal,

Ref: XXXXXXXXXXXXXX

Further to our correspondence in 2016 and my subsequent reporting of your practices to the SRA, I write to inform you that I have changed address. The address you have on file is XXXXXXXXXXXXXX and my new address is XXXXXXXXXXXXXX.

Please note that in the event that you issue a claim to my previous address, I will rely on this letter to hold you and your client liable for the full costs of a set aside application in the event that you choose to pursue this route.

Yours faithfully,

XXXXXXXXXXX
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nosferatu1001
post Thu, 29 Jun 2017 - 09:42
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Yes. Simple and straight to the point.
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alexsyl
post Thu, 29 Jun 2017 - 10:42
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Thank you - will send that today, 1st class with proof of posting smile.gif
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alexsyl
post Fri, 30 Jun 2017 - 10:22
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Just to add, I've had an email response from the SRA after I emailed them with a brief query based on what Gan mentioned. Does surprise me to a point but hey ho!

Thank you for your email.

I can confirm that we have had sight of correspondence which confirms that BW Legal do act on behalf of legitimate clients in the course of debt recovery for those clients.

Kind regards,

XXXXXXXXXX
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alexsyl
post Tue, 29 May 2018 - 16:16
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Hello again all,

This had gone rather inactive for some time, however out of the blue I have received the attached template letters from both BW Legal and VCS in the same envelope.

This is the first contact I have had from either of them in nearly 2 years.

The last letter I sent was detailed above - I never received any kind of response to this, have still never received a copy of the original PCN. It's so frustrating and stressful to have this kind of stuff so far down the line when I have not heard from them in so long and was hoping it would be all done and dusted with now.

My initial thought is to send a fairly generic rebuff letter back saying that I have requested the original PCN on multiple occasions and this still has not been forthcoming - is this the correct way to go or is there a better way of dealing with it at this stage?

Any advice appreciated - my brain has turned to mush!

Many thanks


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nosferatu1001
post Tue, 29 May 2018 - 17:04
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Ensure you deny any right to "initial legal costs", as these were a) not detailed b) aren't recoverable and c) not recoverable against the keeper anyways.
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alexsyl
post Wed, 30 May 2018 - 07:53
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Thanks - don't suppose there is a useful article anywhere that refers to the legal costs and why they are not recoverable, that you could link to please?

I'll get a response drafted up today and post it up here for review before sending.

Appreciate your help
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nosferatu1001
post Wed, 30 May 2018 - 08:25
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It's in the cprs for small claims court, just look it up. It's what limits costs in small claims.
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ostell
post Wed, 30 May 2018 - 08:26
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Legal costs are limited in the small claims court.
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Umkomaas
post Wed, 30 May 2018 - 10:29
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QUOTE
My initial thought is to send a fairly generic rebuff letter back saying that I have requested the original PCN on multiple occasions and this still has not been forthcoming

Drop a SAR-bomb on both of them, asking for all the details that they hold on you - tickets, letters, photos, recorded phone calls, correspondence with third parties in relation to you. It's now free of charge and, under the new GDPR, they are required to respond to you within 1 month.

Layout examples via Google.
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alexsyl
post Wed, 30 May 2018 - 16:14
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Thanks for your comments and help everyone.

Below is a first draft of my response - any comments or advice appreciated? Hoping to get this posted tomorrow.



Dear BW Legal,

I refer to your letter dated 23rd May 2018, received on 29th May 2018. As per my previous correspondence to you, I continue to deny any debt to Vehicle Control Services (VCS) and/or yourselves (BW Legal).

Note that in my previous correspondence to you on 4th October 2016, I informed you that I had never received the original PCN that VCS claimed to have sent me. Despite me both raising it to your attention and requesting your client to send me a copy on more than one occasion, this has never been forthcoming.

I also refute any liability for the “initial legal costs” you refer to, as these were not originally detailed by your client, and regardless are not recoverable under Section 27 of the CPR.

Seen as you have failed to comply with my previous requests, I am now formally taking this opportunity to make a Subject Access Request (SAR) with yourselves. Please take this instruction as a request for a copy of all information you hold about me, for which I am entitled under Article 15 of the General Data Protection Regulations (GDPR).

This should include details of any addresses, contact details or personal information you hold on me, together with copies of all PCNs, photos, correspondence sent between you and myself, plus any correspondence including telephone calls regarding my case between you and your client, VCS, and copies of any correspondence or telephone calls regarding my case with any other third parties.

Please note, you must comply with my SAR without undue delay and at the latest within one month of receipt. The time limit starts from the day you receive this request (whether the day is a working day or not) and as such, I expect a full and detailed response no later than 1st July 2018.

If you do not respond to this request within one month then I will consider this matter closed and do not expect to hear from you again. I will have no hesitation in referring this matter to the Information Commissioners Office (ICO) if you refuse my request, fail to comply within the allocated time period, or persist in contacting me at a later date.

Yours faithfully,

XXXXXX

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Umkomaas
post Wed, 30 May 2018 - 16:29
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QUOTE
Seen as you have failed to comply with my previous requests

'Seen' should read 'Seeing', but I'd leave the word out altogether as the sentence is much more formal if you just start it 'As you have failed to comply ........'

Are you dropping one on VCS too? Because you can compare the two responses where there could well be cracks between them - then you can exploit these via the ICO. Having the ICO sniffing around them both will hopefully spoil their appetite for litigation in your case.
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SchoolRunMum
post Wed, 30 May 2018 - 17:35
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Head it up Subject Access Request - pass to your Data Manager/Data Controller.
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alexsyl
post Thu, 31 May 2018 - 08:02
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Thanks both, yes will send one to VCS too minus the first couple of paragraphs.

Will make those amendments this morning and get them sent off - first class with POP smile.gif
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Jlc
post Thu, 31 May 2018 - 08:55
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QUOTE (alexsyl @ Wed, 30 May 2018 - 17:14) *
... General Data Protection RegulationS (GDPR).

Sorry for minor correction.

This post has been edited by Jlc: Thu, 31 May 2018 - 08:58


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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whjohnson
post Thu, 31 May 2018 - 10:56
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"Seen as you have failed to comply with my previous requests" would read better if you replaced with -

"Since you have seen fit to ignore my previous requests for information............"

This post has been edited by whjohnson: Thu, 31 May 2018 - 10:59
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alexsyl
post Fri, 29 Jun 2018 - 08:09
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So yesterday I received the attached letter in the post. Just a generic letter from BW with the "we've still not heard from you and if we don't then county court proceedings etc".

This makes no reference to my previous response, include a SAR, of 4 weeks ago.

So, do I either ignore it until their one month SAR deadline is up and then report them to the ICO, or do I respond with a copy of my letter from last month saying that I have tried to get in touch with them? I have a copy of proof of posting from last time just in case.

Any advice appreciated.

Many thanks

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ostell
post Fri, 29 Jun 2018 - 08:33
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Ask them why they have not acknowledged nor responded to you letter and GDPR request of the xxx May. Again 1st class and Certificate of posting.
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alexsyl
post Fri, 29 Jun 2018 - 09:59
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Does something like this seem suitable?


Dear BW Legal,

I refer to your letter dated 25th June 2018.

I am extremely disappointed and frustrated at your lack of acknowledgement or response to my letter of 31st May 2018, clearly stating my position and making a formal Subject Access Request with yourselves. A copy of this letter is enclosed for your reference.

My position has not changed and I demand to know why my Subject Access Request has not been acknowledged or dealt with. As it stands, you will be in breach of the General Data Protection Regulation 2016 (GDPR) and I will be reporting you to the ICO should I not receive a satisfactory response.

For the avoidance of doubt, I am willing to extend the date on my Subject Access Request by two weeks, and as such I expect a full and complete response no later than the 15th July.

Any other correspondence from yourselves before then, that does not respond in full to my request, will be deemed as harrassment and will be reported as such.

Yours faithfully,

XXXXXXXXXXX

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Jlc
post Fri, 29 Jun 2018 - 10:56
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Drop 2016?

Why are you willing to give an 'extension'?


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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