PePiPoo Helping the motorist get justice

Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

PCN - VCS in Sheffield - Soft appeal rejected
BigAlC
post Tue, 28 Apr 2015 - 11:45
Post #1


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 51
Joined: 28 Apr 2015
Member No.: 76,977



Hi all,

I've joined here from MSE in the hope some legal eagles can give me a bit of a pointer regarding the appeal to the entirely "unbias" IAS board.

Here is the link to the MSE topic, but I'll copy the latest post and add some information below;

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5228413

QUOTE
So, as for the pcn. It has been issued under a code 81. "Parked in a restricted area of a car park".

As you can see from the pictures above, there is no signage to dictate that the area is restricted, neither on the floor markings or on posts. This alone makes this ticket null and void in my opinion but obviously they thought otherwise by responding on this point saying;
QUOTE
"As per the statement made by our patrol officer, your vehicle was parked in a restricted area. Specifically, they stated, "not parked in a bay or space, parked in a service bay". The signs on site clearly state, "Park correctly and only between the lines of a single marked bay". It is not unreasonable to expect motorists to check signs in situ before leaving their vehicle.
.


I think they have caught themselves out there, as he says the patrol monkey has said one thing, and their own sign says another. Please correct me if I am wrong.

It goes on to say;
QUOTE
Your vehicle was not parked in a parking bay, and the signs on site indicate that any area that is not a parking bay may not be used for parking. Accordingly, this notice was issued correctly for a breach of the Terms and Conditions displayed on site and quoted above, and the charge will therefore stand. Whilst we appreciate what you have stated in your correspondance, we must advise you that it is the landower's decision whether or not to have lines warning motorists. As the signage in the car park is deemed as adequate, there is no need for lines warning motorists as well.

Personally, I still think this is rubbish. Again though if anyone can enlighten me that would be wonderful.

I also pulled up the charge amount and questioned its value, here is the response;

QUOTE
We note your comments in relation to the amount of our PCN charges and we can confirm that they represent a sum for liquidated and ascertained damages in respect of a breach of the "parking contract". Those charges have been calculated in advance and were clearly set out on the signage. When a motorist parks in breach of the terms and conditions of parking, a loss is incurred by us as incorrect parking prevents the efficient management of the car park. If we are unable to regulate the car park, our clients would not require our services and the company would cease to exist. It is therefore justifiable that the operator seeks to enforce its terms and conditions.


I will be sending another letter to them today, asking for a fully compliant VAT invoice to be sent to me with a breakdown of all charges applied to create the £100 charge. We shall see what they say.


So I will have a look for a template, unless someone wishes to provide something which might stand a chance of getting the PCN thrown out?

It will basically be along the same lines as my original appeal of contravention did not occur due to lack of restricted area signage and ergo lack of signage stipulating where restricted areas are and disproportional charges.

I understand that once this letter is fired off, unless I get a court order or similar I simply ignore further letters, although there is an option to deny the "collection agency" and refer them back to VCS.

Oh as a side note, I'll be getting a witness statement from one of the business owners to add ammo to my rebuttle.

Cheers for any help anyone can offer. I realise it's a mammoth first post and I've probably left loads out, but please ask any questions you need answering.

Al.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
5 Pages V  « < 3 4 5  
Start new topic
Replies (80 - 88)
Advertisement
post Tue, 28 Apr 2015 - 11:45
Post #


Advertise here!









Go to the top of the page
 
Quote Post
BigAlC
post Fri, 12 Oct 2018 - 07:19
Post #81


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 51
Joined: 28 Apr 2015
Member No.: 76,977



Sure enough. I've now got my letter of claim. biggrin.gif

It's the usual garbage that is seen on all the other threads, and here is my response which I've created from various sources, both here and elsewhere,

A critique would be appreciated (see attachments)
Attached Image

Attached Image


A secondary question, If I respond towards the end of the due date, does this then prevent anything being issued until I get all documents back that I have requested?

Cheers!
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
nosferatu1001
post Fri, 12 Oct 2018 - 08:16
Post #82


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 18,710
Joined: 27 Nov 2007
Member No.: 15,642



Nothing prevents them issuing a claim
Nothing
If they pay the fee, it gets filed. Done.

Failing to follow the PAP you could argue should allow you to apply for, and get, a Stay on proceedings .The feee of £100 is then usually payable by them.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
BigAlC
post Mon, 15 Oct 2018 - 12:17
Post #83


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 51
Joined: 28 Apr 2015
Member No.: 76,977



Thanks Nos!

I'm just doing a little more polishing on this letter in response to my LOC from BW Legal.

Going through my pack of documents since this all started (I've kept everything) there are various admissions of things from POFA to Ellliott vs Loake etc. Most interestingly though I have a couple of pictures which clearly show there is no restricted area where the vehicle was parked.

Can I / Should I refer to this "evidence" which they sent me ( I have pictures of my own to back this up ) and put a paragraph in basically saying your own "evidence" shows that the vehicle is not in a restricted area and as such you will lose at court due to your reason for issuing the invoice being invalid?

Another thing, do I need to fill out the "Reply Form" which gives me various tick boxes to select? Some say you do, and others say ignore it and just respond with the request for more information letter.

TIA.

This post has been edited by BigAlC: Mon, 15 Oct 2018 - 12:18
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
nosferatu1001
post Mon, 15 Oct 2018 - 13:52
Post #84


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 18,710
Joined: 27 Nov 2007
Member No.: 15,642



Yes, point out their OWN pictures show that their claims of a "restricted area" are either a deliberate falsehood or incompetence. You suggest they refer back to their client and enquire as to which one they prefer.

You require a full explanation of how theire can be a "restricted area" when there is no such area marked, and how their client has come up with such an assertion
ALternatively, yuo will accept an apology and confirmation that they have cancelled any and all tickets and will cease processing your data.

No, you dont have to fill 0ut any form. It is entirely optional.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
BigAlC
post Mon, 15 Oct 2018 - 14:35
Post #85


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 51
Joined: 28 Apr 2015
Member No.: 76,977



Once again, thanks.

Here is the paragraph:

QUOTE
I also refer you again back to your response letter to my complaint to the CSA dated XXxXXX in which you have given me copies of your client’s pictures of the vehicle parked in the alleged “restricted area” which they may intend to rely on in court. It is clear from these pictures that the vehicle is clearly not parked in such an area and these pictures are either a deliberate falsehood and attempt to mislead, or pure incompetence. I suggest you refer to your client and establish which one they prefer. I also require a full explanation on how there can be a “restricted area” when there is no such area marked, and how your client has come to this assertion. Please do not refer to “Parking Within a Marked Bay” as this is not the contravention code that your client has used to issue the Notice to Keeper.

Alternatively, I will accept a full apology from yourselves and your client, confirming that this ticket is cancelled, and both companies have ceased processing my data.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
nosferatu1001
post Mon, 15 Oct 2018 - 14:55
Post #86


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 18,710
Joined: 27 Nov 2007
Member No.: 15,642



Do they give any reference numbers to the photos? Always be as specific as you can.
If we could see the photos - presumably a "restricted area" would have some form of markings, and the asbsnece of them would be prime facie proof the area cannot be rstricted in anyway. Seeing signs would be good as well.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
BigAlC
post Tue, 16 Oct 2018 - 06:24
Post #87


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 51
Joined: 28 Apr 2015
Member No.: 76,977



QUOTE (nosferatu1001 @ Mon, 15 Oct 2018 - 15:55) *
Do they give any reference numbers to the photos? Always be as specific as you can.
If we could see the photos - presumably a "restricted area" would have some form of markings, and the asbsnece of them would be prime facie proof the area cannot be rstricted in anyway. Seeing signs would be good as well.



No direct reference no. I could place annotation on them and refer to them myself.

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image


Pretty clear that there are no restrictions in place or marked otherwise.

Signage - This link is taken from another persons thread on MSE, but is one of the relevant signs. If I interpret it correctly then even the sign states that restricted areas are marked.

TIA.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
nosferatu1001
post Tue, 16 Oct 2018 - 09:03
Post #88


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 18,710
Joined: 27 Nov 2007
Member No.: 15,642



Its a terrible pic however it suggests that the no parking in ... would be dyl, walkways etc. Dont you have your own pictures (Im not going back through 5 pages to see why)
Annotate and reference them
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
BigAlC
post Tue, 16 Oct 2018 - 09:46
Post #89


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 51
Joined: 28 Apr 2015
Member No.: 76,977



I do have my own indeed.

I'll throw a few in for good measure and reference a case I've been given the access to, to really try and nip this now.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post

5 Pages V  « < 3 4 5
Reply to this topicStart new topic
1 User(s) are reading this topic (1 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members:

 



Advertisement

Advertise here!

RSS Lo-Fi Version Time is now: Sunday, 16th December 2018 - 23:33
Pepipoo uses cookies. You can find details of the cookies we use here along with links to information on how to manage them.
Please click the button to accept our cookies and hide this message. We’ll also assume that you’re happy to accept them if you continue to use the site.