PePiPoo Helping the motorist get justice

Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

Excel Parking/VCS/BW Legal coming up to 6 years
the_ism
post Mon, 8 Oct 2018 - 17:04
Post #1


New Member


Group: Members
Posts: 4
Joined: 3 Oct 2018
Member No.: 100,181



Hi all,

I've been searching around your website and Money Supermarket, and feel a bit silly as I can't seem to find a definitive answer, and in all honesty feel a bit out of my depth with this, so hoping for some advice.

I've received a Final Notice letter from BW Legal, with VCS as their client, dating to a PCN from December 2012 for a car I no longer own.

Now the car was in the car park at the time, and when I initially received a letter I said I would not pay the PCN as the amount seemed unreasonable and that they could only claim for the earnings lost on account of me parking there without a ticket (even though the car park was nearly empty!), which from my research at the time was the best response.

I did also receive a letter prior to this one which was "the First Letter" as they call it, which I ignored. Shortly after this, the phone calls from BW Legal started, which I have also ignored.

I know it's approaching the 6-year mark which is why they are hounding me. As the contravention was late in 2012, I think they can hold it against the Registered Keeper, but please correct me if I'm wrong? I've also noticed that at the time the car park was managed by Excel Parking and not VCS.

I'm not really sure what my response, if any, should be at this point? Can I go for the "I entered into an agreement with Excel Parking and as such VCS has no grounds to seek a claim"?

Sorry if this has been asked a million times, but I have attempted to search for VCS Excel and BW legal. I just fear I'm missing something.

Any help will be much appreciated!

Many Thanks!
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
2 Pages V   1 2 >  
Start new topic
Replies (1 - 19)
Advertisement
post Mon, 8 Oct 2018 - 17:04
Post #


Advertise here!









Go to the top of the page
 
Quote Post
cabbyman
post Mon, 8 Oct 2018 - 17:27
Post #2


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 5,938
Joined: 15 Dec 2007
From: South of John O'Groats, north of Cape Town.
Member No.: 16,066



Show us a copy of the letter from BWL, redacting identifying detail.

It's certainly worthwhile using deadlines to the full when approaching a timeout but we need to see which letter you have. When was the event? Early or late December? Are we aiming for New Year?


--------------------
Cabbyman 10 PPCs 0
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Jlc
post Mon, 8 Oct 2018 - 17:32
Post #3


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 29,118
Joined: 25 Aug 2011
From: With Mickey
Member No.: 49,223



Whilst PoFA (for keeper liability) was in force it doesn’t mean it’s automatic.

They almost certainly didn’t comply. Do you have the original paperwork to confirm?


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Redivi
post Mon, 8 Oct 2018 - 20:09
Post #4


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 1,941
Joined: 31 Jan 2018
Member No.: 96,238



I entered into an agreement with Excel Parking and as such VCS has no grounds to seek a claim

Never admit that you were (a) the driver or (b) the driver entered into any contract

I would keep it short and blunt

Your client is not the operator whose signs were displayed in the car park
It cannot possibly have entered into any contract with the driver


This post has been edited by Redivi: Mon, 8 Oct 2018 - 20:13
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
the_ism
post Tue, 9 Oct 2018 - 12:45
Post #5


New Member


Group: Members
Posts: 4
Joined: 3 Oct 2018
Member No.: 100,181





Goes on to mention the usual CCJ stuff and how to make a payment. But I'm certain at the time of the contravention that the car park had Excel parking on the signage.


I'll look for the original paperwork!

Thanks for all your help so far!

This post has been edited by the_ism: Tue, 9 Oct 2018 - 21:15
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
nosferatu1001
post Tue, 9 Oct 2018 - 14:40
Post #6


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 18,084
Joined: 27 Nov 2007
Member No.: 15,642



Just a debt colelctor letter. Not a LBA
BE prepared for one
Get pics of the signs at the time. You need them if you are being chased by VCS for something from Eccel.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
ManxRed
post Tue, 9 Oct 2018 - 14:57
Post #7


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 9,182
Joined: 20 Aug 2008
Member No.: 21,992



Yes, the letter you have received requires a response within 17 days or they will recommend their client takes action. Let the 17 days time out.

Then, if you receive a Letter Before Action/Claim from BW Legal, send the response Redivi suggests above but do it as late as possible, to meet their deadline. String this out as much as you can. They need to give you a certain amount of time to respond to a Letter Before Claim anyway.


--------------------
Sometimes I use big words I don't understand in an effort to make myself sound more photosynthesis.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
ostell
post Tue, 9 Oct 2018 - 15:43
Post #8


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 8,441
Joined: 8 Mar 2013
Member No.: 60,457



Looking at Albert Street car park it says that it is NCP, even going back in time. Can you point out the actual car park on Street view and you might be able to find out the operators at the time. Some of the timelines go back to 2012.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
the_ism
post Tue, 9 Oct 2018 - 16:19
Post #9


New Member


Group: Members
Posts: 4
Joined: 3 Oct 2018
Member No.: 100,181



Thanks for all the advice! I've tried looking and haven't been able to find the original PCN.

As for trying to get pictures of the signage, its been changed now, but doing some searching has brought me to:

http://parking-prankster.blogspot.com/2017...ert-street.html

In that post, the Ms. O had parked in the same car park in 2014 and it the signage still had Excel Parking on it, it does include a picture but isn't dated, so not sure how useful that is.

But it does list three instances where VCS/BW Legal lost against similar cases.

Only just saw Ostells post, below is a google maps link to the car park.

https://goo.gl/maps/4bSV5c3mtrK2

Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
cabbyman
post Tue, 9 Oct 2018 - 16:41
Post #10


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 5,938
Joined: 15 Dec 2007
From: South of John O'Groats, north of Cape Town.
Member No.: 16,066



If I'm in the right car park, this shows an Excel sign from 2017:

https://goo.gl/maps/V3PRHBLBBVB2

I think my strategy would be:

1. Stay quiet until a LBC is received.
2. Delay the response until the last possible moment but, in that response, require details of notices, signs and authority that they intend to rely on in court. Give them a deadline of 28 days. They may take all that time!!!
3. Pick holes in their response, particularly if they don't include copies of the above. Give them a deadline
4. Delay further before you remind them that the signs onsite were Excel, including the evidence from GSV and Pranky.

Hopefully, by this time, Christmas will be upon us, but you need to keep a letter ping-pong going with them to try to timeout.


--------------------
Cabbyman 10 PPCs 0
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
The Slithy Tove
post Tue, 9 Oct 2018 - 16:55
Post #11


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 2,183
Joined: 5 Jan 2012
Member No.: 52,178



The image in post 5 has some numbers under "Zone A". This is probably enough for them to identify your case. You should redact that bit and update the posted image.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Spudandros
post Tue, 9 Oct 2018 - 22:53
Post #12


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 174
Joined: 7 Feb 2016
Member No.: 82,244



QUOTE (cabbyman @ Tue, 9 Oct 2018 - 17:41) *
If I'm in the right car park, this shows an Excel sign from 2017:

https://goo.gl/maps/V3PRHBLBBVB2


the signage in 2008 is for Excel, as is the signage for 2012.
You can wind the history bar back on Street View to see it in past visits by the Google van.
Click on the location panel in the top right corner, on the date with a clock icon next to it. Handy tool for checking photos of signs are contemporaneous with the parking event.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
ostell
post Wed, 10 Oct 2018 - 07:46
Post #13


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 8,441
Joined: 8 Mar 2013
Member No.: 60,457



This is the sign that created the contract in 2012. Later versions of the sign may have made a mention of VCS but this one doesn't appear to have. Take a print of that 2012 image for use in court.

Oh dear , they've done it again!

Yes, delay matters as long as possible and in any case even if the make a claim as VCS they are on a very sticky wicket. There is a recent case, if my memory serves me right, where they lost on this very fact. The rep for VCS tried to state that they were associated companies but the judge didn't allow it.

This post has been edited by ostell: Wed, 10 Oct 2018 - 07:49
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
the_ism
post Wed, 10 Oct 2018 - 09:00
Post #14


New Member


Group: Members
Posts: 4
Joined: 3 Oct 2018
Member No.: 100,181



Now I feel even more silly as I had been on street view to look for the signage and couldn't zoom in enough to see the T&Cs, not realising there was a HUGE Excel Parking logo on the top right-hand corner!

Phone calls have kept coming. Also got a text message last night saying "We have recently attempted to contact you regarding a personal business matter"

In regards to cabbyman's post, specifically, point 2. What does he mean by Authority?
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
ostell
post Wed, 10 Oct 2018 - 09:29
Post #15


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 8,441
Joined: 8 Mar 2013
Member No.: 60,457



Authority to issue charges, ie the contract with the landowner.

I believe that if you require additional information after a letter before claim they have to extend the 30 day again after their response to allow you time to respond to the response.

My own thought about the Excel/VCS difference is keep quiet until the claim is actually issued. It can then be used to kill the claim dead. Others will comment about this.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Redivi
post Wed, 10 Oct 2018 - 09:37
Post #16


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 1,941
Joined: 31 Jan 2018
Member No.: 96,238



I'm guessing that Cabbyman is referring to the authority from the land-owner that allows its contractor to take legal action

My own thought about the Excel/VCS difference is keep quiet until the claim is actually issued. It can then be used to kill the claim dead. Others will comment about this.

I would mention it now and argue "unreasonable behaviour" if the claim is issued

If BWL tries to switch horses and issue a claim on behalf of Excel, they will have the problem that their client has never issued a parking notice
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
cabbyman
post Wed, 10 Oct 2018 - 15:52
Post #17


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 5,938
Joined: 15 Dec 2007
From: South of John O'Groats, north of Cape Town.
Member No.: 16,066



Sorry, yes. I was referring getting them to provide an unredacted copy of the authority from the landowner to a) Issue tickets in this location and b) Progress them to court.


--------------------
Cabbyman 10 PPCs 0
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
SchoolRunMum
post Wed, 10 Oct 2018 - 17:38
Post #18


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 17,983
Joined: 20 Sep 2009
Member No.: 32,130



Delay the response as long as possible between each step, but send VCS a SAR at some point soon, to string it out. And a copy to BW Legal, saying that you object to data processing while a SAR is being requested.

When you do the SAR, it goes directly to VCS' Data Protection Officer, contact details should be findable on their Privacy page of their website. No template, no generic rubbish you find for a SAR. Just an email headed up SAR and Objection to Processing my registered keeper data, and asking for all data VCS hold, all photos taken, all letters sent, all electronic records held or updated and clear explanations of whether the staff and systems holding & processing such data were VCS or Excel, at every point of data processing & storage.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
bearclaw
post Thu, 11 Oct 2018 - 14:57
Post #19


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 127
Joined: 15 Nov 2017
Member No.: 95,103



QUOTE (ostell @ Wed, 10 Oct 2018 - 08:46) *
This is the sign that created the contract in 2012. Later versions of the sign may have made a mention of VCS but this one doesn't appear to have. Take a print of that 2012 image for use in court.

Oh dear , they've done it again!

Yes, delay matters as long as possible and in any case even if the make a claim as VCS they are on a very sticky wicket. There is a recent case, if my memory serves me right, where they lost on this very fact. The rep for VCS tried to state that they were associated companies but the judge didn't allow it.



Are you thinking of this one...? http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=120254

Although the judge picked up on the VCS/Excel I dont think that was the reason they lost it.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
ostell
post Thu, 11 Oct 2018 - 20:30
Post #20


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 8,441
Joined: 8 Mar 2013
Member No.: 60,457



There was one where they lost because of this
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post

2 Pages V   1 2 >
Reply to this topicStart new topic
1 User(s) are reading this topic (1 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members:

 



Advertisement

Advertise here!

RSS Lo-Fi Version Time is now: Saturday, 20th October 2018 - 22:32
Pepipoo uses cookies. You can find details of the cookies we use here along with links to information on how to manage them.
Please click the button to accept our cookies and hide this message. We’ll also assume that you’re happy to accept them if you continue to use the site.