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Received NTK...
Johnsmith12
post Sun, 30 Sep 2018 - 20:22
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...30 days after alleged parking violation occurred in private car park.

This car park didn’t issue the driver with a windscreen ticket, nor is it pay and diaplay. They have used a warden whom has taken photos of said car and I have recieved the NTK 30 days after.

Am I correct in thinking this should of been with the driver no later than 14 days and in that case I have grounds for dissmissal?

I am also fully aware the notice hasn’t complied with the freedom of information act as it hasn’t issued a length of stay and the postcode for the alleged offence is incorrect.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

** the registered keeper also recieved nothing on the windscreen nor nothing handed to them by said warden.**

This post has been edited by Johnsmith12: Sun, 30 Sep 2018 - 22:00
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post Sun, 30 Sep 2018 - 20:22
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Johnsmith12
post Wed, 3 Oct 2018 - 09:44
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Well I have appealed and am currently waiting a response. Ntk was sent out after 30 days with no NTD being issued.

Therefore Euro has 14 days to deliver NTK which they didn’t, therefore driver will not be named and cannot be assumed.

Also EURO has broken many rules stated in IPC code of conduct.

We will see.
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Jlc
post Wed, 3 Oct 2018 - 10:10
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Ok, just to add they are a little litigious - here.


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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Johnsmith12
post Wed, 3 Oct 2018 - 10:30
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Thanks mate. Yeah :/ we will see where it goes.
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ostell
post Wed, 3 Oct 2018 - 20:16
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So what exactly did you write in your appeal?
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Johnsmith12
post Thu, 4 Oct 2018 - 09:55
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QUOTE (ostell @ Wed, 3 Oct 2018 - 21:16) *
So what exactly did you write in your appeal?



Dear Sirs,

I have just received your Notice to Keeper xxxxx for vehicle VRM xxxx

You have failed to comply with the requirements of Schedule 4 of The Protection Of Freedoms Act 2012 namely, but not limited to, failing to deliver the notice within the relevant time of 14 days as prescribed by section 9 (4) of the Act. You cannot, therefore, transfer liability for the alleged charge from the driver at the time to me, the keeper.

There is no legal requirement to name the driver at the time and I will not be doing so.

I do not expect to hear from you again expect to confrim that no further action will be taken on this matter and my personal details have been removed from your records.

Yours etc,

...

Pretty much that
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ostell
post Thu, 4 Oct 2018 - 10:40
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OK, it was just that you threatened to add extra. We've seen "additions" to standard text that kill the intended function of the text.
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Johnsmith12
post Fri, 5 Oct 2018 - 10:07
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the 14 days you state only apply when we as Operators seek to rely on the provisions of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012.

If we are of that time, we can still pursue our claim under contract, for which the limitations period is 6 years from the date of breach, under the Limitations Act 1980.

We will therefore pursuing our claim under the general principles of the law of contract.

———

This post has been edited by Johnsmith12: Sun, 7 Oct 2018 - 07:47
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ostell
post Fri, 5 Oct 2018 - 10:25
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You could respond and thank them for confirming that they are not using POFA for keeper liability. Remind them that they can now only hold the driver liable and as yet you have not seen any evidence of the driver. The use of the criminal case of Elliot v Loake to make the assumption that the keeper was the driver is not appl;icable and has been rejected many times by the courts.
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Jlc
post Fri, 5 Oct 2018 - 11:25
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Quel surprise...

So simply provide them some evidence that the keeper wasn't driving and they are snookered.


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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Johnsmith12
post Fri, 5 Oct 2018 - 13:10
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QUOTE (Jlc @ Fri, 5 Oct 2018 - 12:25) *
Quel surprise...

So simply provide them some evidence that the keeper wasn't driving and they are snookered.


How would the keeper do this?
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Jlc
post Fri, 5 Oct 2018 - 13:40
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Evidence of being elsewhere - could be a ticket or receipt for example. Tracking on a mobile phone.

Or even a witness statement.

They won't give up easily.


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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Johnsmith12
post Fri, 5 Oct 2018 - 14:16
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How about a rota proving TRk was in work?
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SchoolRunMum
post Fri, 5 Oct 2018 - 14:26
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Yes of course.

And thank them very much for confirming they cannot hold you liable as keeper under the POFA 2012.

To pre-empt a crap reply, remind them that CPS v AJH Films Ltd and any similar blathering about the law of agency has no legs (as confirmed to Simon Renshaw Smith, in Excel v Smith on appeal) and so you look forward to them confirming they have now erased your data. They must now consider this a Notice requesting Erasure of your data, as you have established you are not the liable party.

If they do not pass this to their Data Protection Team and confirm the data will be erased now, you will complain to the ICO about a specific breach of the GDPR and data misuse, and will file a counter-claim, should they try a doomed robo-claim in their full knowledge that you have evidenced not being the driver.
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Jlc
post Fri, 5 Oct 2018 - 15:06
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QUOTE (Johnsmith12 @ Fri, 5 Oct 2018 - 15:16) *
How about a rota proving TRk was in work?

That's a pretty good one! Even better if you could get the employer to provide it...


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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Johnsmith12
post Fri, 5 Oct 2018 - 15:14
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Should rota be sent back to Euro as part of appeals process or warning given to Euro that keeper has evidence that wasn’t driver.
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Jlc
post Fri, 5 Oct 2018 - 15:30
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I wouldn't withhold any strong evidence. But don't be surprised if they continue to pursue.


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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Johnsmith12
post Fri, 5 Oct 2018 - 17:19
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I am interested to see what data Euro has about me. Should I subject access request them first before detailing any data to be deleted?

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Jlc
post Fri, 5 Oct 2018 - 19:06
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QUOTE (Johnsmith12 @ Fri, 5 Oct 2018 - 18:19) *
I am interested to see what data Euro has about me. Should I subject access request them first before detailing any data to be deleted?

That's what SAR's are for :-)


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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Johnsmith12
post Fri, 5 Oct 2018 - 21:04
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Think I’m going to sar. Would like to see what they have.

Also would of matter if on ntk the name of the site and postcode is actually incorrect.
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nosferatu1001
post Mon, 8 Oct 2018 - 07:18
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If htey do not detail the relevant site, of course it matters.
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