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Received NTK...
Johnsmith12
post Sun, 30 Sep 2018 - 20:22
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...30 days after alleged parking violation occurred in private car park.

This car park didn’t issue the driver with a windscreen ticket, nor is it pay and diaplay. They have used a warden whom has taken photos of said car and I have recieved the NTK 30 days after.

Am I correct in thinking this should of been with the driver no later than 14 days and in that case I have grounds for dissmissal?

I am also fully aware the notice hasn’t complied with the freedom of information act as it hasn’t issued a length of stay and the postcode for the alleged offence is incorrect.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

** the registered keeper also recieved nothing on the windscreen nor nothing handed to them by said warden.**

This post has been edited by Johnsmith12: Sun, 30 Sep 2018 - 22:00
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post Sun, 30 Sep 2018 - 20:22
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Jlc
post Sun, 30 Sep 2018 - 20:54
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Which parking company?

Does the NtK claim keeper liability?

If a PCN wasn’t placed on the car at the time then the NtK has to be delivered within 14 days for keeper liability. Being later doesn’t invalidate it but they can only pursue the driver.


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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Johnsmith12
post Sun, 30 Sep 2018 - 21:02
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QUOTE (Jlc @ Sun, 30 Sep 2018 - 21:54) *
Which parking company?

Does the NtK claim keeper liability?

If a PCN wasn’t placed on the car at the time then the NtK has to be delivered within 14 days for keeper liability. Being later doesn’t invalidate it but they can only pursue the driver.


Euro

Says it’s a notice to keeper. I suppose they are perusing the driver. But as nothing was handed to the driver nor placed on the windscreen I cannot possibly comment on who was the driver at the time.
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ostell
post Sun, 30 Sep 2018 - 21:56
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Edit that first post so that the identity of the driver cannot be inferred.`use "the driver....."etc

Dear Sirs,

I have just received your Notice to Keeper xxxxx for vehicle VRM xxxx

You have failed to comply with the requirements of Schedule 4 of The Protection Of Freedoms Act 2012 namely, but not limited to, failing to deliver the notice within the relevant time of 14 days as prescribed by section 9 (4) of the Act. You cannot, therefore, transfer liability for the alleged charge from the driver at the time to me, the keeper.

There is no legal requirement to name the driver at the time and I will not be doing so.

I do not expect to hear from you again expect to confrim that no further action will be taken on this matter and my personal details have been removed from your records.

Yours etc,


This post has been edited by ostell: Sun, 30 Sep 2018 - 21:57
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Johnsmith12
post Sun, 30 Sep 2018 - 22:03
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QUOTE (ostell @ Sun, 30 Sep 2018 - 22:56) *
Edit that first post so that the identity of the driver cannot be inferred.`use "the driver....."etc

Dear Sirs,

I have just received your Notice to Keeper xxxxx for vehicle VRM xxxx

You have failed to comply with the requirements of Schedule 4 of The Protection Of Freedoms Act 2012 namely, but not limited to, failing to deliver the notice within the relevant time of 14 days as prescribed by section 9 (4) of the Act. You cannot, therefore, transfer liability for the alleged charge from the driver at the time to me, the keeper.

There is no legal requirement to name the driver at the time and I will not be doing so.

I do not expect to hear from you again expect to confrim that no further action will be taken on this matter and my personal details have been removed from your records.

Yours etc,


Edited 1st, thanks.

And if this is the correct paragraph to send then i imagine it will be sent to Euro.

Is this all the information needed?
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Johnsmith12
post Sun, 30 Sep 2018 - 22:15
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Do you also appeal in writing or via email ?

Is either or a better way?
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ostell
post Mon, 1 Oct 2018 - 06:31
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Either way but if by mail then first class and get free certificate of posting from a post office. As long as you can show it's been sent.
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Johnsmith12
post Mon, 1 Oct 2018 - 06:53
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QUOTE (ostell @ Mon, 1 Oct 2018 - 07:31) *
Either way but if by mail then first class and get free certificate of posting from a post office. As long as you can show it's been sent.


Great.

Going to throw in a quick statement about gdpr for good measure. Asking not to be contacted again unless is an exception letter., anything else will go against gdpr regulation.
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Jlc
post Mon, 1 Oct 2018 - 09:05
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QUOTE (Johnsmith12 @ Mon, 1 Oct 2018 - 07:53) *
Going to throw in a quick statement about gdpr for good measure. Asking not to be contacted again unless is an exception letter., anything else will go against gdpr regulation.

On what basis are they going against 'GDPR regulation'?


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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Johnsmith12
post Mon, 1 Oct 2018 - 09:20
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QUOTE (Jlc @ Mon, 1 Oct 2018 - 10:05) *
QUOTE (Johnsmith12 @ Mon, 1 Oct 2018 - 07:53) *
Going to throw in a quick statement about gdpr for good measure. Asking not to be contacted again unless is an exception letter., anything else will go against gdpr regulation.

On what basis are they going against 'GDPR regulation'?


If I ask to be removed from any of their records and receive no more information off them Except confirmation that the charge is cancelled I am asking their company to longer contact me and therefore if they do they are breaking my request.
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Jlc
post Mon, 1 Oct 2018 - 09:31
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But what if they have a legitimate reason to process your personal data? The ICO have played straight bat with the DVLA to date and accept that private parking companies have 'reasonable cause' to pursue. (Even when not complying with PoFA - arguably they still have the right to have the matter decided at court)


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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Johnsmith12
post Mon, 1 Oct 2018 - 10:20
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QUOTE (Jlc @ Mon, 1 Oct 2018 - 10:31) *
But what if they have a legitimate reason to process your personal data? The ICO have played straight bat with the DVLA to date and accept that private parking companies have 'reasonable cause' to pursue. (Even when not complying with PoFA - arguably they still have the right to have the matter decided at court)



If they haven’t complied with the freedom of informations act, and the charge is indeed void. I have requested to nkt be contacted again other than to confirm it’s been cancelled.

So, I suppose you’re correct but I have also now requested for the charge to be removed, the keeper will not be naming the driver and therefore I don’t want to receive anymore info from the company. If they do they are breaking my request and a complaint may be made.

We will see.
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Jlc
post Mon, 1 Oct 2018 - 11:22
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Unless you can provide proof it wasn't you driving then they won't stop pursuing you.

(I wish it were as simple as you wish)


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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nosferatu1001
post Mon, 1 Oct 2018 - 12:03
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Your miusunderstanding of GDPR is a common one but, indeed, flawed. For example, they do not require your consent, at all, to contact you. POFA compliance only afects Keeper liability, it says NOTHING about the validity of hteunderlying alleged ddebt.

This post has been edited by nosferatu1001: Mon, 1 Oct 2018 - 12:05
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Johnsmith12
post Mon, 1 Oct 2018 - 12:47
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Thanks for the replies guys. I have appealed this charge and we will see where it goes from here.

I have told them that no PCN was issued therefore they failed to contact within 14days and said driver will not be named nor assumed.

See where this takes us. Minus the whole gdpr thing.
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Johnsmith12
post Tue, 2 Oct 2018 - 16:58
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Just a quick update. I have appealed said charge and contacted many people in regards to this;

The landowners
The site management
Retailers
And local counsellors and MP’s

I have had feedback from a few of the above some of which have agreed in writing the charge counteracts the POFA and should have grounds to appeal and overturn.

I am currently awaiting responses from some of the above and have also been in touch with a person at the car parking company direct to inform them of the breach of the POFA and IPC code of conduct.

Will update as continues.
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cabbyman
post Tue, 2 Oct 2018 - 18:18
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huh.gif

Mountains and molehills come to mind.

As your research on here will have shown, ECP will reject but provide a POPLA code. A detailed POPLA appeal, including late service as point #1, will see this killed.

Your contact 'with a person at the car parking company direct' may well have been counter productive, particularly if it was by phone and you inadvertently identified the driver.

From here on, rather than go bull at a gate, read other threads, read the advice offered and follow it. There are a lot of experienced people on here who know a lot more about the process than you.


--------------------
Cabbyman 10 PPCs 0
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Jlc
post Tue, 2 Oct 2018 - 18:43
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You mention IPC. Which 'Euro'?

There's Euro Car Parks (BPA) and Euro Parking Services (IPC).

Not sure what 'counteract PoFA' means.


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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Johnsmith12
post Wed, 3 Oct 2018 - 09:16
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Euro Parking Services.

No driver has been identified. Phone call was simply to receive an email address for said person.

Contravene’s the POFA then.

Let’s wait and see the outcome.

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Jlc
post Wed, 3 Oct 2018 - 09:32
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Sorry for being picky but you can't 'contravene PoFA'.

They have either met all of the necessary conditions to pursue the keeper or not.

If they didn't then they can only pursue the driver. Or more precisely, the keeper on the basis they were driving.

As IPC member, they won't give up chasing. (With BPA, POPLA will uphold appeals on the basis of lack of keeper liability)

The view will be that if the keeper doesn't name the driver then they were, on the balance of probabilities, driving.

This post has been edited by Jlc: Wed, 3 Oct 2018 - 09:33


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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