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LCP PCN Harslden Plaza Car Park
John Bravo
post Sat, 2 Jun 2018 - 11:28
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Hi All,
This is a new PCN. I think this is becoming my new hobby :-)


The duration is 3h30min
The driver has paid for the 1st hour then was held by a physiotherapist and bought a ticket for another 1h. There is still 1h30min of unpaid parking.

This £100 does not look like a fair penalty considering the contravention.
Please advise.
Best regards,

This post has been edited by John Bravo: Sat, 2 Jun 2018 - 20:04
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post Sat, 2 Jun 2018 - 11:28
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nosferatu1001
post Tue, 7 Aug 2018 - 09:41
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Leave it in.
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John Bravo
post Sun, 19 Aug 2018 - 22:06
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LCP Parking has uploaded their evidence. I have 7 days to comment on their evidences.
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Macapaca
post Mon, 20 Aug 2018 - 06:56
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QUOTE (John Bravo @ Sun, 19 Aug 2018 - 23:06) *
LCP Parking has uploaded their evidence. I have 7 days to comment on their evidences.

If you want some help then post it here.
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nosferatu1001
post Mon, 20 Aug 2018 - 08:10
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Yes?

So the obvious way to comment would be to review your appeal, review their response, and note anything
- where they havent responded to the appeal point at all
- where their response is clearly inadequate i.e. you asked for unredacted contract but they gave a wintess statement
- where their response doesnt stack up e.g. the contract isnt signed, has run out, the signs arent of the site, etc.
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cabbyman
post Mon, 20 Aug 2018 - 18:24
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Any points they have made with which you disagree. You must rebut everything. If you are silent, the point is deemed accepted.


--------------------
Cabbyman 10 PPCs 0
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John Bravo
post Mon, 20 Aug 2018 - 22:47
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I can see they have attached about 25 documents ~19MB in size.
I am going to add them here shortly.
Best regards,
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John Bravo
post Tue, 21 Aug 2018 - 00:32
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The standard PDF's from them are in ZIP archive: https://filebin.net/jp7umg70y2sm18t6

This post has been edited by John Bravo: Tue, 21 Aug 2018 - 00:40
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nosferatu1001
post Tue, 21 Aug 2018 - 08:59
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Thats all well and good
WHat have YOU dont to review them?
Using the suggestiosn we've given?


You need to STroNGLY rebut that "frustration of contract" is "mititgating"

It is not
It is a complete defence against payment under contract for breach of contradct.
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John Bravo
post Fri, 24 Aug 2018 - 16:08
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They say that I can and I should pay at the parking machine for the time I have overstayed, but looking at all these signs I cannot see any information how to accomplish it. Calling them or paying over the web is out of question if the phone is not available.

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nosferatu1001
post Sun, 26 Aug 2018 - 23:18
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Your time is up

Please show us your rebuttal.
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John Bravo
post Thu, 27 Sep 2018 - 12:34
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Hi again,
My apologies but I was away.
This is the decision from POPLA I have received a couple of days ago.

Decision: Unsuccessful
Assessor summary of operator case: The operator has issued the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) as the motorist overstayed.
Assessor summary of your case: The appellant’s case is that the PCN fails to meet the obligations of Protection of Freedoms Act (POFA) 2012, Schedule 4, Section 9. The appellant also says there were unforeseen circumstances and frustration of contract. The appellant has provided a pdf document containing their appeal and a copy of the PCN.
Assessor supporting rational for decision

When parking on private land, it is the responsibility of the motorist to ensure they adhere to the terms and conditions of the car park. The operator has provided photographs of the signage explaining the terms and conditions, as displayed on signs throughout the site. The signage states: “24 HOUR PAY AND DISPLAY…MONDAY TO SUNDAY INCLUDING BANK HOLIDAYS…DAY RATE..Monday to Saturday 08:00 to 23:00…1 hr £2.00…4 hrs £8.00…A PARKING CHARGE NOTICE MAY BE ISSUED FOR:…NON PAYMENT IN LIEU OF PARKING TIME…BY PARKING YOU ACCEPT THE TERMS AND CONDITIONS…FAILURE TO COMPLY MAY RESULT IN A PARKING CHARGE OF £100”. The operator has provided images from the Automatic Number Plate Recognition (ANPR) system, which shows the appellant’s vehicle, LC04 YTW, entered the site at 14:45 and exited the site at 18:18 on 19 May 2018. A total stay of three hours and 33 minutes. The operator has provided a list of the payments it received at the site during the period the appellant parked. The list contains two payments of £2.00 for the appellant’s vehicle registration. The operator has issued the PCN as the motorist overstayed. The appellant’s case is that the PCN fails to meet the obligations of Protection of Freedoms Act (POFA) 2012, Schedule 4, Section 9. The appellant also says there were unforeseen circumstances and frustration of contract. As the driver has not been identified within the appeal to POPLA or to the operator, I need to ensure that the operator has shown strict compliance with the Protection of Freedoms Act (PoFA) 2012. PoFA 2012 is used to transfer liability from the driver of the vehicle to the keeper of the vehicle when the driver has not been identified. I have reviewed the Notice to Keeper and I am satisfied that the operator has shown strict compliance with PoFA 2012. As such, liability has been transferred to the keeper of the vehicle. When looking at appeals, POPLA considers whether a parking contract was formed and, if so, whether the motorist kept to the conditions of the contract. Even if a motorist presents mitigating circumstances setting out exceptional reasons why they did not keep to the parking conditions, POPLA cannot allow an appeal if a contract was formed and the motorist did not keep to the parking conditions. Ultimately, it is the responsibility of the motorist to ensure that when they enter private land, they have understood and complied with the terms and conditions displayed throughout the site. The signage at the site is sufficient to make motorists aware of how much they are required to pay. If the motorist was in disagreement with the terms and conditions of the site or felt that the terms and conditions of the site could not be complied with, there would have been sufficient time to leave the site without entering into a contract with the operator. By remaining on the car park, the motorist accepted the terms and conditions displayed throughout the car park and entered into a contract with the operator. The operator has demonstrated that the motorist paid for two hours of parking but stayed for three hours and 33 minutes. I conclude that the motorist breached the terms and conditions by overstaying the period they had paid for. As the operator has demonstrated that it issued the PCN correctly and that it has transferred liability of the PCN to the keeper, I must refuse this appeal.

This post has been edited by John Bravo: Thu, 27 Sep 2018 - 12:45
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nosferatu1001
post Thu, 27 Sep 2018 - 12:53
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They entirely ignored the Frustration of Contract issue

Procedural error by POPLA. Immediate complaint.
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John Bravo
post Thu, 27 Sep 2018 - 15:26
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Should I email them based on what's on their website?

"Unhappy with our service POPLA

At POPLA we take complaints about our service very seriously. If you think that we have done something wrong please let us know so we have the chance to put things right quickly and effectively. Your complaint will help us learn from our mistakes and improve our service.

Sometimes the outcome of your appeal is not what you want to hear. Your appeal has independently been reviewed by a professional assessor taking into consideration the relevant law, regulatory rules, guidance and standards and the British Parking Association Code of Practice. You cannot challenge the outcome of your appeal with POPLA. Regardless, you should be satisfied with the level of service you have received free of charge from us. If you disagree with the outcome of your appeal, you will need to follow alternative routes.

We can only investigate complaints that involve allegations of poor service or performance, for example where we have:

treated you rudely;
failed to keep you updated on progress;
caused unnecessary delays;
failed to explain things properly; or
any other shortfall in service

If you have a complaint about the standard of service that we have provided, please send us an email to info@popla.co.uk "
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John Bravo
post Thu, 4 Oct 2018 - 15:57
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I have emailed info@popla few days ago but no response so far.
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nosferatu1001
post Fri, 5 Oct 2018 - 08:11
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Hve you searched for any other email addresses? Written a letter? Tried something to escalate this?
You could in the meantime state to the PPC you are disputing this decision as they have ignored that no charge can be payable due to frustration of contract. This is not mitigation, this is a reason it should not have been issued AND is a reason it is not payable. Until POPLA has acknowledged and dealt with your complaint, they must hold off any action on their end, as this is a clear procedural error (failing to deal with an appeal point) by POPLA.
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John Bravo
post Mon, 8 Oct 2018 - 00:44
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QUOTE (nosferatu1001 @ Fri, 5 Oct 2018 - 09:11) *
Hve you searched for any other email addresses? Written a letter? Tried something to escalate this?
You could in the meantime state to the PPC you are disputing this decision as they have ignored that no charge can be payable due to frustration of contract. This is not mitigation, this is a reason it should not have been issued AND is a reason it is not payable. Until POPLA has acknowledged and dealt with your complaint, they must hold off any action on their end, as this is a clear procedural error (failing to deal with an appeal point) by POPLA.

I have chased to the existing info@ email address.
Do you mean inform LCP? Who is PPC?
Best regards
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nosferatu1001
post Mon, 8 Oct 2018 - 09:03
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Private Parking company
Pointless chasing the smae email address.

This post has been edited by nosferatu1001: Mon, 8 Oct 2018 - 09:04
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John Bravo
post Wed, 10 Oct 2018 - 10:39
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POPLA has just came back and they forwarded my complaint to complaints department for review.
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John Bravo
post Thu, 11 Oct 2018 - 22:45
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QUOTE
Your complaint about POPLA

Thank you for your email dated 2 October 2018 which was passed to me by the POPLA team as I am responsible for responding to complaints.

I note from your correspondence that you are unhappy with the decision reached by the assessor in your appeal against LCP Parking Services.

It is important to explain that it is not our remit to source evidence and documents from either party in support of their submission and our decisions are based on the evidence received from both parties at the time of the assessment. The decision reached is based on the information made available to the assessor at the time. We cannot accept or introduce new evidence that either party has not reviewed.

You quoted within your appeal to POPLA, “unforeseen circumstances, frustration of contract”. There is no information to indicate what the unforeseen circumstances were that led you to feel that there was a frustration of contract.

The assessor correctly assessed your appeal based on the grounds that you submitted. They correctly assessed that the operator followed the Protection of Freedom Act (PoFA) 2012. Further, the assessor identified that the operator offered you a contract on the date. By parking your vehicle, you implied your acceptance of this contract but failed to meet the terms offered, as such you breached the contract by remaining at the site for a period of one hour and 33 minutes longer than the time you purchased.

I have reviewed the assessor’s decision and I am satisfied that the outcome reached is correct. POPLA is a one-stage process; there is no opportunity for you to appeal the decision.

In closing, I am sorry that your experience of using our service has not been positive. While I understand this is not the outcome you had hoped for, our involvement in your appeal has now concluded. We have reached the end of our process and my response now concludes our complaints procedure.

As our involvement in your appeal has now concluded you may wish to pursue matters further. For independent legal advice, please contact Citizens Advice at: www.citizensadvice.org.uk or call 0345 404 05 06 (English) or 0345 404 0505 (Welsh).

We have reached the end of our process, it will not be appropriate to respond to any further correspondence on this matter. For clarity, if you choose to send us further correspondence, it will be noted but not responded to.
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nosferatu1001
post Fri, 12 Oct 2018 - 07:33
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So you literally stated "frustration of contract" and nothing more, despite being told waaaaay back to include the full details?
No wonder they rejected it as a valid point. Its not a silver bullet, you have to explain more.
You have the Witness Statement now yes?
In case they do court?

This post has been edited by nosferatu1001: Fri, 12 Oct 2018 - 08:46
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