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Vehicle Control Services, County Court Claim Form issued 18 April
flabbergasted
post Wed, 9 May 2018 - 21:52
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Hi All,

We received an ANPR Parking Charge Notice in the post back in July last year. It was showing the time of car entering and leaving carpark, 20 minutes without displaying a ticket. At the time we couldn't even work out what carpark it was, as in their correspondence it reads: Albert Street Birmingham B5 5JH. The postcode is showing the address to be Park Street, not Albert Street. So we ignored their letters. Unfortunately, only kept the Letter Before Claim and all the subsequent ones: County Court Claim form (which was aknowledged in the 14 days) and Detailed Particulars. In Detailed Particulars there are no pictures nor real details of the alleged contravention, except for:
"The Defendant s been issued with a CN for failure to adhere to the advertised T&C s at a development(s) known as Albert Street B5 5JH on June 3 2017. The offer advertised by way of the T&Cs was accepted by conduct." etc signed by Jake Burgess

So, it's now down to writing a defence and prepare for the courts. As June 3rd was Saturday, the driver was only there looking to park and left without parking.
Any suggestions on what to focus on in the defence, much appreciated.
To add, County Court Claim Form was issued 18th April 2018.

Thank you all

This post has been edited by flabbergasted: Wed, 9 May 2018 - 22:52
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post Wed, 9 May 2018 - 21:52
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Lape
post Sat, 12 May 2018 - 09:11
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Their official app, showing that it still belongs to Excel =)
and the borders of the area indicated in VCS POC

P.S could we actually use each other POC as a proof that they are robo-generated identical ones?

This post has been edited by Lape: Sat, 12 May 2018 - 09:26
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The Rookie
post Sat, 12 May 2018 - 09:15
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Even though its not actually on Albert street according to Google maps!

EDIT - and streetmap.co.uk

This post has been edited by The Rookie: Sat, 12 May 2018 - 09:31


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Lape
post Sat, 12 May 2018 - 09:18
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QUOTE (ostell @ Sat, 12 May 2018 - 10:11) *
Sorry, must be blind, didn't see those details. So does the sign have the usual large Excel logo at the top right? I don't believe you can make a contract with 2 entities at the same time so use the one that is apparent, ie the largest.


Yes, they do
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ostell
post Sat, 12 May 2018 - 09:29
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So as far as the driver was concerned they were contracting with Excel and VCS are strangers. In case of confusion the consumer is entitled to use the most advantageous interpretation.
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The Rookie
post Sat, 12 May 2018 - 09:37
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Interesting find here
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Birmingham
Shows Albert street continuing across the dual carriageway to join Park street (but pedestrianised) and the north end of that car park appears to border it.

In the gap between the Clayton Hotel and what's labelled as Fazeley Street car park (also EXcel) if you imagine Park Lane continuing in a straight line where it kinks by the Hotel.
https://www.google.co.in/maps/place/Albert+...33;4d-1.8918048

I would say there can be no PoFA compliance on the location (ignoring other failings), even though they call it Albert street car park, its not on Albert street and it doesn't tell you the location, if you called it Fred car park it would be no less helpful (or more useless). A cynical person may suggest they use the Albert Street moniker to make it appear closer to the shopping than it actually is.

This post has been edited by The Rookie: Sat, 12 May 2018 - 09:43


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There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
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Rookies 1-0 Birmingham

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flabbergasted
post Sat, 12 May 2018 - 10:15
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QUOTE (ostell @ Sat, 12 May 2018 - 10:11) *
Sorry, must be blind, didn't see those details. So does the sign have the usual large Excel logo at the top right? I don't believe you can make a contract with 2 entities at the same time so use the one that is apparent, ie the largest.


Yup. Big fat "EXCEL" at the top of the sign (tried to attach pic but there wasnt enough space left for attachments?)
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ostell
post Sat, 12 May 2018 - 10:36
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Use an external hosting site and then place the link on here. Instructions in the READ ME FIRST sticky thread at the top of the list.

So Excel offering a parking contract and VCS taking you to court for an alleged breach of contract for the driver. Bit of a no no.
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flabbergasted
post Sat, 12 May 2018 - 10:47
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QUOTE (ostell @ Sat, 12 May 2018 - 11:36) *
Use an external hosting site and then place the link on here. Instructions in the READ ME FIRST sticky thread at the top of the list.

So Excel offering a parking contract and VCS taking you to court for an alleged breach of contract for the driver. Bit of a no no.


Yes I understand the external hosting option, except im only using mobile phone atm so its all a bit tricky.
I still dont understand this whole VCS vs EXCEL business. They are both mentioned on their car park's signs, just how legally challengable all that is, I have no clue.
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Redivi
post Sat, 12 May 2018 - 12:18
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IIRC the signs refer to paying VCS

It raises several legal issues

If you contract with Excel but payments go to VCS, they could enforce under the Contracts (Right of Third Parties) Regulations 1999

BUT

They have to plead the regulation
VCS isn't a third party; it issued the Parking Notice so what contract gives it the authority to do so ?
The third party has the same rights to enforce as if he had been a party to the contract therefore VCS has to produce Excel's contract with the land-owner to show what legal capacity the land-owner has granted
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flabbergasted
post Sat, 12 May 2018 - 14:05
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QUOTE (Redivi @ Sat, 12 May 2018 - 13:18) *
IIRC the signs refer to paying VCS

It raises several legal issues

If you contract with Excel but payments go to VCS, they could enforce under the Contracts (Right of Third Parties) Regulations 1999

BUT

They have to plead the regulation
VCS isn't a third party; it issued the Parking Notice so what contract gives it the authority to do so ?
The third party has the same rights to enforce as if he had been a party to the contract therefore VCS has to produce Excel's contract with the land-owner to show what legal capacity the land-owner has granted

Thank you for the education smile.gif Hopefully at the end of this PC ordeal ill be able to share my advice with others. Im learning a lot from all of you guys, hope to put it all to good use in our defence and not let VCS win.

This post has been edited by flabbergasted: Sat, 12 May 2018 - 14:06
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flabbergasted
post Sun, 13 May 2018 - 21:56
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QUOTE (Lape @ Sat, 12 May 2018 - 10:11) *
Their official app, showing that it still belongs to Excel =)
and the borders of the area indicated in VCS POC

P.S could we actually use each other POC as a proof that they are robo-generated identical ones?


Furthermore, looking at your first image, where you selected EXCEL as the carpark operator, VCS isnt even an option in dropdown menu under --Select Operator--
So basically, even if you wanted to you cant get into contract with VCS, on Albert Street B5 5JH or anywhere else.

This post has been edited by flabbergasted: Mon, 14 May 2018 - 07:02
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flabbergasted
post Mon, 14 May 2018 - 14:03
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As I understand, defence should be emailed to CCBCAQ@Justice.gov.uk? If so how is the defendant to add signature? Can it be just electronic signature or signed on a piece of paper and attached to the defence (defence is a word doc)?
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Redivi
post Mon, 14 May 2018 - 15:10
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I always advise clients to insert a photo of the signature then convert the document to a pdf
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flabbergasted
post Mon, 14 May 2018 - 15:35
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QUOTE (Redivi @ Mon, 14 May 2018 - 16:10) *
I always advise clients to insert a photo of the signature then convert the document to a pdf

Thank you smile.gif pdf it is then.
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ostell
post Mon, 14 May 2018 - 16:31
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The latest version of Adobe reader allows youto add a signature to a PDF document. To scan the signature use black ink on very white paper.
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The Rookie
post Tue, 15 May 2018 - 06:12
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QUOTE (Redivi @ Sat, 12 May 2018 - 13:18) *
IIRC the signs refer to paying VCS

Not quite.....

See page 2 for signage
QUOTE (The Rookie @ Sat, 12 May 2018 - 08:25) *
Well from that sign VCS may be able to claim interest and additional costs - but not the original sum, while Excel may be able to claim the original sum but not the interest and other costs.


--------------------
There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
Rookies 1-0 Kent

Council PCN's
Rookies 1-0 Warwick
Rookies 1-0 Birmingham

PPC PCN's
Rookies 8-0 PPC's
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Redivi
post Tue, 15 May 2018 - 07:04
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Good spot

Consumer Rights Act 2015 S.69

Contract terms that may have different meanings

(1)If a term in a consumer contract, or a consumer notice, could have different meanings, the meaning that is most favourable to the consumer is to prevail.
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Lape
post Wed, 16 May 2018 - 12:15
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I found a case that might help a lot. Round 2. Where VCS fails to identify the relevant land, and moving vehicle is not a parked one.
http://parking-prankster.blogspot.co.uk/20...ts-for.html?m=1

Should I quote it in the defence?

This post has been edited by Lape: Wed, 16 May 2018 - 12:17
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nosferatu1001
post Thu, 17 May 2018 - 10:40
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Sounds good to me smile.gif
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flabbergasted
post Thu, 17 May 2018 - 21:14
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QUOTE (Redivi @ Mon, 14 May 2018 - 16:10) *
I always advise clients to insert a photo of the signature then convert the document to a pdf


Other than the Defence attachment, do I add anything / address anyone in the email?
Thx
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