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Britannia Parking PCN
niacuk
post Mon, 4 Dec 2017 - 21:47
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Cutting to the chase.....

The driver (in car) entered a gated Britannia site in Plymouth in order to have breakfast with a friend. A good meal and a few coffees were enjoyed and 3.5hrs later the driver exited the site and headed home.

Today the driver gets a lovely pair of photos through the door and a request for £85 on the grounds that the driver stayed too long. 3hrs is apparently the limit on the site, regardless of whether or not you are a paying restaurant customer. The pictures of the car are good but not of the driver. Date and time makes sense and it all looks legit. But, is the driver really expected to pay the fine for enjoying the restaurant for 30 minutes longer than they'd like you to? Do they expect the driver to just get up and leave their meal and friend to meet the criteria of the parking company?

Ignore or not?

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post Mon, 4 Dec 2017 - 21:47
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niacuk
post Tue, 5 Dec 2017 - 21:31
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QUOTE (cabbyman @ Tue, 5 Dec 2017 - 21:13) *
Please post, verbatim, the appeal that was sent.

The next stage will be the rejection from Britannia along with a POPLA code........Although, from memory, Britannia often forget this bit!!!!

Search for 'maritime byelaws popla 2017,' 'ABP Southampton' and 'Town Quay Southampton' which should give you a good range of byelaws threads to read and understand. In a few of them, you will find some good POPLA appeals that mention the byelaws early on. Try adapting something to your situation and posting it here so that we can help you through it. However, don't expect us to do the work for you; it's imperative that you gain a good understanding of the process and legal concepts involved. It's quite straightforward once you get into it. smile.gif

Spclexus and/or OP: I saw the CP entrance but didn't post the GSV link to it. However, there is a blue sign on the wall that mentions 'The Dock' or similar. Is that an ABP sign that contains a note about byelaws, by any chance? If so, it's in the perfect position for this case! smile.gif


Verbatim will be difficult as the online facility will not let you review the appeal.
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niacuk
post Tue, 5 Dec 2017 - 21:43
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In brief it said:

The driver was attending as a paying customer. Meeting friends for breakfast on the day of the alleged contravention.. The driver is an ex cancer patient as is one of the friends and the delay was due to the friend having a slow pace (arriving late and slow eater) caused by the recent treatment said friend has gone through.

That's pretty much the gist of it. A plea for the pcn to be cancelled on the grounds that enforcing the pcn would be a bit harsh.

It was worded better, but you can see where the keeper was going with it.
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ostell
post Wed, 6 Dec 2017 - 07:43
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Do you really think that Britannia will take any notice? All they want is your money and don't care about any sort of compassion.
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niacuk
post Wed, 6 Dec 2017 - 09:20
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QUOTE (ostell @ Wed, 6 Dec 2017 - 07:43) *
Do you really think that Britannia will take any notice? All they want is your money and don't care about any sort of compassion.


The keeper is fully aware of the odds. That said, the keeper has been fortunate in the past with a council parking charge that was waived on the grounds that the charge was a bit cheeky under the circumstances. In the keepers opinion it's worth a shot. You can laugh at the keeper when the rejected appeal comes back.
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ostell
post Wed, 6 Dec 2017 - 09:40
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Not laughing, just realistic. Please have a search for byelaws in the area.
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Spclexus
post Wed, 6 Dec 2017 - 10:06
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At the point of diagnosis for cancer a person is deemed disabled under the disability act 1995. And as such the equality act 2010. This covers in treatment and remission. Resonable adjustments have to be made. While the ppc will take a hardline approach if it ever gets to claim a court will consider the position surely ?
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nosferatu1001
post Wed, 6 Dec 2017 - 11:39
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DA1995? I thought that was replaced by the EA2010?
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cabbyman
post Wed, 6 Dec 2017 - 14:23
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How are you getting on with your reading, niacuk?

What do YOU think will happen next and what action should you then take, in consequence?


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Spclexus
post Wed, 6 Dec 2017 - 15:37
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QUOTE (nosferatu1001 @ Wed, 6 Dec 2017 - 11:39) *
DA1995? I thought that was replaced by the EA2010?


Ah yes correct, the importance of latest info. When i researched it before through mcmillan webpage they referenced the da1995 first then onto ea2010. Now the ea2010 covers it. I passed kings point today through work but couldnt stop. There are newer abp signs everywhere not on google, And a large abp info sign at the entrance. I will get photos fri and post up.

This post has been edited by Spclexus: Wed, 6 Dec 2017 - 15:45
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ostell
post Wed, 6 Dec 2017 - 16:12
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If there's and ABP sign then there's a high probability that the area is subject to byelaws.

Are these for the applicable area?. The maximum fine for contravening the byelaws is £25

This post has been edited by ostell: Wed, 6 Dec 2017 - 16:17
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Spclexus
post Wed, 6 Dec 2017 - 17:25
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QUOTE (ostell @ Wed, 6 Dec 2017 - 16:12) *
If there's and ABP sign then there's a high probability that the area is subject to byelaws.

Are these for the applicable area?. The maximum fine for contravening the byelaws is £25


The area is known as millbay (docks). Yes
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SchoolRunMum
post Wed, 6 Dec 2017 - 17:58
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QUOTE (Spclexus @ Wed, 6 Dec 2017 - 11:06) *
At the point of diagnosis for cancer a person is deemed disabled under the disability act 1995. And as such the equality act 2010. This covers in treatment and remission. Resonable adjustments have to be made. While the ppc will take a hardline approach if it ever gets to claim a court will consider the position surely ?


All correct - EA 2010 protects a person with cancer.

QUOTE
The keeper is fully aware of the odds.


The odds of either getting the Retail Park management to cancel it (Plan A - urgent) or winning at POPLA (Plan B) are both excellent.
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niacuk
post Wed, 6 Dec 2017 - 18:30
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The keeper will comment in a short while. Been a long day at work wink.gif
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niacuk
post Wed, 6 Dec 2017 - 21:17
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QUOTE (SchoolRunMum @ Wed, 6 Dec 2017 - 17:58) *
QUOTE (Spclexus @ Wed, 6 Dec 2017 - 11:06) *
At the point of diagnosis for cancer a person is deemed disabled under the disability act 1995. And as such the equality act 2010. This covers in treatment and remission. Resonable adjustments have to be made. While the ppc will take a hardline approach if it ever gets to claim a court will consider the position surely ?


All correct - EA 2010 protects a person with cancer.

QUOTE
The keeper is fully aware of the odds.


The odds of either getting the Retail Park management to cancel it (Plan A - urgent) or winning at POPLA (Plan B) are both excellent.



You mention plan A. What is plan A and how does the keeper embark on such a plan given the restaurant and king point have both sloped shoulders on the subject?

Unfortunately (knows it's the keepers burden at the end of the day and you good people are not expected to pedal on behalf of the keeper) the keeper has not had much time to dedicate to reading up on bylaws etc this week. The keeper works 12hr days currently and spends the evenings writing estimates for the following days work. What spare time the keeper does have is with family and where possible reading and acting upon your advice where possible. In a nutshell, the keeper appreciates your guidance so far.

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ostell
post Wed, 6 Dec 2017 - 22:24
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If you could find out if byelaws exist then they can not continue with this claim. The ABP port office is on the right when you enter the complex and see the marina on your left, picture here, with a parking place in front of it. Ask for a copy of the Byelaws, including a map.
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Spclexus
post Fri, 8 Dec 2017 - 14:10
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Ok, here are the relevant pictures from the port. These are all beyond the port entrance...

At the carpark entrance barrier...



Within the carpark... these are over 7ft high. Im tall and had too look up!


ABT sign opposite port office.... 23. Has a link to byelaws.



I went into the port office as ostell suggested and enquired about the byelaws. The lady while helpful could no provide any hard copies but gave me the name of the person who deals with them. Maybe useful.

Mike reynolds. Operations Manager. ABT Port Plymouth
mreynolds@abports.co.uk

Hopefully if needed this information may help. smile.gif


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cabbyman
post Fri, 8 Dec 2017 - 14:23
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Brilliant work, spclexus!

The link on the sign leads to the byelaws, a direct link for which has been provided in a couple of posts on the thread. So, I think we can be confident that, to all intents and purposes, we have ascertained that the land is covered by byelaws and is, therefore, NOT relevant land under PoFA. Slam dunk at POPLA.

Niacuk, How are you getting on with drafting your POPLA appeal? Would you care to show us what you have so far? smile.gif


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ostell
post Fri, 8 Dec 2017 - 18:09
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So your fist point in your POPLA appeal is that this area is subject to Byelaws and therefore it is not relevant land for the purpose of POFA. That being the case then there can be no keeper liability, only the driver at the time.
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niacuk
post Sat, 20 Jan 2018 - 20:04
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Sorry for the long gap.....

The keeper received a rejection notice from Britannia...... as expected. A POPLA has been submitted worded very similarly to the post above (bye laws) along with the images of the port signs. Very many thanks for the assistance, the keeper will let us know what the outcome is.
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cabbyman
post Sat, 20 Jan 2018 - 20:20
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Did you include other points as well as byelaws????



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