MULTIPLE PCN'S FOR WIDTH RESTRICTION, REDBRIDGE COUNCIL PCN'S Options

[RedBtichBorough]

Hello all,

I have received multiple PCN's for the same width restriction on Overton Drive, wanstead, london. I have been driving down that stretch of road for years without issue, a long time ago the council removed the locked bar that was placed in the middle of the road stopping vehicles using the middle path, as its wider and safer to do so, without damaging your vehicle, in case of turning too much etc.

With this bar taken out drivers were (including myself), taking the middle path as it was safer and quicker to do so, I did this for a very long time until I received a PCN in the post. My vehicle is leased and as such the PCN's are taking months to arrive, as soon as I received the first one I stopped going down that road. Unfortunately for me the period I have calculated as two month's, meant that I had used that path nearly every weekday for two months. I paid one and then realised what was soon going to come through the letterbox as the two months passed, currently I have accrued over 7 fines for the contravention....

I still need to wait until the end august, as I used this road up until 5th of July, the first day I received a fine I have not paid any of the other fines other than the first one.

The fines started being applied to my vehicle from the 1st of May 2019, which I am assuming was the start of the Operation (gold pot at the end of rainbow being filled up). The first one I paid for was applied on the 1st of May and received on the 5th of July, I hope you guys can understand the predicament I am in.

I was hoping someone could help me have all the rest of these fines thrown out....

The first one I paid

The next one I received

The back of the fines

I currently have 6 unpaid fines sitting on my desk, with more incoming.....Any help would be greatly appreciated.

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[PASTMYBEST]

its not, though you have to be aware of the capriciousness of adjudicators, as we well know

This is true, though there is also the more "conventional" flaw on page 1, so the argument can be made that two different periods are conveyed, and they're both wrong.

I know and agree just trying to make sure the pitfalls are explored rather than missed. once bitten twice shy and all that

[Mad Mick V]

OP---when you took photos of the restriction did you measure the gap? The following Decision is not clear but it seems the appellant contended that the gap was less than 2m / 6'6":-

2190285717

This is an appeal on the ground the contravention did not occur. I have considered all the evidence submitted in this appeal, including the CCTV.

It is the responsibility of the enforcement authority to satisfy me a contravention has occurred. To do so they must establish there is a clearly signed and valid restriction. In this case no evidence is submitted of the signage the motorist is alleged to have passed. The CCTV shows a restriction for the opposing lane of traffic but I cannot assume that it would be the same for the signs facing the opposite direction.

The appellant alleges their vehicle does not fit through the barrier as set because it is smaller than the permitted width which the vehicle would be below.

Without the correct evidence from the enforcement authority showing the restriction I am not satisfied that a contravention did occur.

Appeal allowed.

----------------------




Mick

This post has been edited by Mad Mick V: Sun, 18 Aug 2019 - 07:13

[Neil B]

OP---when you took photos of the restriction did you measure the gap?
Mick

It is indeed very tight, in both directions.

My old Movano, 1990mm used to go through with 30-40mm to spare each side though.

[RedBtichBorough]

There is an update on my situation, the council have cancelled several fines

This is the list as it stands now:


_____Contra date__Issue Date___Fine

1. 01/05/2019 - 05/07/2019 - PAID £0.00
2. 14/05/2019 - 17/07/2019 - PCNP £65.00
3. 14/05/2019 - CANCL - CANCL £0.00
4. 15/05/2019 - 18/07/2019 - PCNP £65.00
5. 16/05/2019 - 22/07/2019 - PCNP £65.00
6. 17/05/2019 - 19/07/2019 - PCNP £65.00
7. 18/05/2019 - 19/07/2019 - PCNP £65.00
8. 20/05/2019 - 19/07/2019 - PCNP £65.00
9. 21/05/2019 - 22/07/2019 - PCNP £65.00
10. 24/05/2019 - CANCL - CANCL £0.00
11. [04/06/2019 - CANCL - CANCL £0.00
12. 10/06/2019 - CANCL - CANCL £0.00
13. 12/06/2019 - CANCL - CANCL £0.00
14. 18/06/2019 - CANCL - CANCL £0.00
15. 19/06/2019 - CANCL - CANCL £0.00
16. 28/06/2019 - CANCL - CANCL £0.00

The 7 fines they clocked in towards the end of may and ending with the last few in June have been cancelled, as a "gesture of goodwill". I'd like to thank those of you who helped me (CP and others) get to this situation, I now need help in making an appeal to the London tribunals for the remaining 7. I will post their replies, once I've uploaded them online.

OP---when you took photos of the restriction did you measure the gap?
Mick

It is indeed very tight, in both directions.

My old Movano, 1990mm used to go through with 30-40mm to spare each side though.

I will be having a look in the coming days to make sure it is measuring to the stated sign.

Here is the cancellation letter:


free picture uploading

Here is the appeal rejection letter:



free picture uploading

any advice would be appreciated.

This post has been edited by RedBtichBorough: Tue, 1 Oct 2019 - 17:33

[PASTMYBEST]

So what is the status of the others ?

[RedBtichBorough]

So what is the status of the others ?

They are outstanding and have been reset to £65.00 coming to a total of £455.00 at the "discounted amount".

I am confused with the points made in the "following options" area where they state if you don't pay (by 28 days) they will increase by 50% to £130.00, but then on the final paragraph they state it will increase by 50% to a £195.00.

This post has been edited by RedBtichBorough: Tue, 1 Oct 2019 - 18:28

[Incandescent]

You need to read the letter more carefully ! The £195 only applies if you now do nothing on receipt of their letter, (pay or appeal to adjudicators).

[PASTMYBEST]

You need to think very carefully on this you have a liability ATM of £455 if you lose at appeal this goes up to £910. The council reduced the penalties from £1820 to £455

What will an adjudicator make of the situation. Proportionality. The council have been generous so that could easily be dismissed

The technical issue on the PCN's has both won and lost

The failing of the council to submit the relevant docs within the mandated time. Should have a good shot, but an adjudicator might just take the view that they are allowed to conduct the appeal as they see fit and they gave a direction to the council

IMO the adjudicator will look at the contravention and from then on you will be on the back foot

You have a pretty good result do you want to push for more?

[Neil B]

So what is the status of the others ?

Indeed.
Strange deal on multiple PCNs.
Perhaps more waiving is forthcoming?

[Masum]

So what is the status of the others ?

They are outstanding and have been reset to £65.00 coming to a total of £455.00 at the "discounted amount".

I am confused with the points made in the "following options" area where they state if you don't pay (by 28 days) they will increase by 50% to £130.00, but then on the final paragraph they state it will increase by 50% to a £195.00.

Did the tribunal take place? What was the outcome? I have the same issue.

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showto...p;#entry1606228

[Neil B]

Did the tribunal take place?

Have a look
https://www.londontribunals.gov.uk/about/registers-appeals