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[NIP Wizard] 1st NIP lost in post
aweo
post Tue, 30 Jul 2013 - 15:32
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NIP Details and Circumstances
What is the name of the Constabulary? -
Date of the offence: - May 2013
Date of the NIP: - 10 days after the offence
Date you received the NIP: - 39 days after the offence
Location of offence (exact location as it appears on the NIP: important): - m62: 25-26 (eastbound)
Was the NIP addressed to you? - Yes
Was the NIP sent by first class post, second class or recorded delivery? - First
If your are not the Registered Keeper, what is your relationship to the vehicle? -
How many current points do you have? - 0
Provide a description of events (if you know what happened) telling us as much about the incident as possible - some things that may seem trivial to you may be important, so don't leave anything out. Please do not post personal details for obvious reasons - Apparently caught doing 58 by average speed cameras through the roadworks (limit of 50 in force) between Brighouse and Chainbar on m62.
NIP sent out 1st class on 31-5-13 but not received at all! The first time i knew of the offence was on 29/6/13 - After I received a reminder dated 28/6/13.

I can't see the online evidence ('no records matching these details') but to avoid falling foul of s172, i wrote back with my details as likely driver and explained the issue of identification. We have 2 regular drivers.

Despite trying to bargain with them, I have now received a letter saying that 'as you have admitted being the driver and we have enough evidence to prosecute', you can do the SAC... or take the points/go to court.

Now, should I just do the SAC and forget about it or is it worth taking a stand? First NIP was genuinely not received, I replied to the reminder with my details (without being able to verify it was me at that time) as soon as i could.


NIP Wizard Responses
These were the responses used by the Wizard to arrive at its recommendation:
Have you received a NIP? - Yes
Are you the Registered Keeper of the vehicle concerned (is your name and address on the V5/V5C)? - Yes
Did the first NIP arrive within 14 days? - No
Was there a valid reason for the NIP's late arrival? - No

NIP Wizard Recommendation
Based on these responses the Wizard suggested that this course of action should be considered:
  • The first NIP to the Registered Keeper must arrive within 14 days unless there is a valid reason why that was not possible, for example a recent change of details.

    This link will take you to the advice provided by the RAC's legal team.

Generated by the PePiPoo NIP Wizard v3.3.2: Tue, 30 Jul 2013 15:32:13 +0000
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post Tue, 30 Jul 2013 - 15:32
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Logician
post Tue, 30 Jul 2013 - 15:39
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Accepting that the first NIP was genuinely not received, we see many posters here saying that and the courts see many defendants saying that, so are very sceptical. It would be very high risk to go to court and try to convince them that you did not receive the NIP. You are actually quite lucky to have been offered a SAC if you introduced any doubt about whether you or someone else was driving. I think by far your best course of action is to accept the offer of a SAC.


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mrh3369
post Tue, 30 Jul 2013 - 17:09
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Pragmatic thing to do is take the SAC.


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Edited as my IPhone thinks it knows best and changes my posts…
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The Rookie
post Tue, 30 Jul 2013 - 17:24
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People have been aquitted on credable verbal evidence the NIP was not recieved, the emphasis is the credable, if it's not credable then clearly you won't be aquitted.


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There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
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sgtdixie
post Wed, 31 Jul 2013 - 07:55
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The SAC is the least painful option.
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aweo
post Mon, 5 Aug 2013 - 18:25
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Thanks for your replies guys. Just to update:

I have now received some images 2months after the incident- tbh they are not very helpful due to the quality. I agree, as the keeper (and more frequent of the drivers) its a lot easier to just take the wrap for it, do the SAC and forget about it. The other driver is not prepared to put his name forward as it has been so long and neither of us remember who may have been driving and the images are useless! I did let them know this: the response was that 'no mitigation unless infront of a magistratrate where i'll be done for s172 if i'm not sure as to who the driver is'!

So I either do the SAC or get done for failure to name driver. I am a bit angry because of the genuine non-delivery of the original NIP (technically, not served in time), not being 100% certain that it was me at the wheel and being an Admiral customer, the innevitable rise in my insurance premium (same as 3-points infact- £250/yr for me for next few years!). Time off work is also not a luxury i can afford right now.

Do I have any grounds at all - could i still get done for 172 if i had given my details as likely driver but not 100% sure? If I put myself down as the driver and try using the 'NIP not received in 14days' - whats the maximum penalty if i fail to convince them? (can the court simply give the fixed penalty of £60 and 3-points or will it definitely be higher)

(my feeling is everyone will just suggest going for the SAC as its getting far too complicated)
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scottishpoet
post Mon, 5 Aug 2013 - 18:35
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QUOTE (aweo @ Mon, 5 Aug 2013 - 19:25) *
Thanks for your replies guys. Just to update:

I have now received some images 2months after the incident- tbh they are not very helpful due to the quality. I agree, as the keeper (and more frequent of the drivers) its a lot easier to just take the wrap for it, do the SAC and forget about it. The other driver is not prepared to put his name forward as it has been so long and neither of us remember who may have been driving and the images are useless! I did let them know this: the response was that 'no mitigation unless infront of a magistratrate where i'll be done for s172 if i'm not sure as to who the driver is'!

So I either do the SAC or get done for failure to name driver. I am a bit angry because of the genuine non-delivery of the original NIP (technically, not served in time), not being 100% certain that it was me at the wheel and being an Admiral customer, the innevitable rise in my insurance premium (same as 3-points infact- £250/yr for me for next few years!). Time off work is also not a luxury i can afford right now.

Do I have any grounds at all - could i still get done for 172 if i had given my details as likely driver but not 100% sure? If I put myself down as the driver and try using the 'NIP not received in 14days' - whats the maximum penalty if i fail to convince them? (can the court simply give the fixed penalty of £60 and 3-points or will it definitely be higher)

(my feeling is everyone will just suggest going for the SAC as its getting far too complicated)


Yes you can still get done for the 172 if you have given you details but said you are not really sure. Do you have any witnesses to the NIP not be served in 14 days? It would have been netter for you if you ad received it late and had someone (the postman) witnes sit arrive late than get a reminder.

if you are taken to court for the 172 the punishment is 6 points and a hoger fine, plus further increased insurance premiums than for your SAC.

if it went to court you could possibly bargain, plead guilty to the speeding to get the S172 dropped. That may depend what the summons you for.

Whatever happens, unless found innocent, the fine will be worse that what you are facing at the moment

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Logician
post Mon, 5 Aug 2013 - 18:54
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If you go to court to defend a s172 and lose which is more than likely, you will get 6 points, a fine of 150% of your net weekly income, a surcharge of 10% of that and costs of up to £630. If you decide later to plea bargain and it is accepted there is no reason for the court to fine you at fixed penalty rates for the speeding, you will get 3 points and a fine of 50% of your net weekly income, less 33% for a guilty plea, plus 10% surcharge plus costs of probably £85.

Do the course, try to split the cost with your mate, and change your insurance company.


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The Rookie
post Mon, 5 Aug 2013 - 20:33
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OR defend it on the late NIP?


--------------------
There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
Rookies 1-0 Kent

Council PCN's
Rookies 1-0 Warwick
Rookies 1-0 Birmingham

PPC PCN's
Rookies 10-0 PPC's
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southpaw82
post Mon, 5 Aug 2013 - 20:58
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QUOTE (The Rookie @ Mon, 5 Aug 2013 - 21:33) *
OR defend it on the late NIP?


Which was the question asked, rather than the one people chose to answer. However, the answer can be found in Logician's post supra.


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Any comments made do not constitute legal advice and should not be relied upon. No lawyer/client relationship should be assumed nor should any duty of care be owed.
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The Rookie
post Mon, 5 Aug 2013 - 21:07
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Well indeed, there has been earlier advice on that option.


--------------------
There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
Rookies 1-0 Kent

Council PCN's
Rookies 1-0 Warwick
Rookies 1-0 Birmingham

PPC PCN's
Rookies 10-0 PPC's
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