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Full amount to pay PCN now, but their post delayed
helping_hand
post Tue, 4 Jun 2019 - 06:46
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I received a PCN on 1st April. I called TFL and requested to post its recorded contravention DVD. They given a ref# and put my ticket on hold for 14 days.

I never received anything, I was away on Easter holidays, forgot this completely. Last weekend I was clearing my draw and found the PCN. I called them straightaway,
they checked their system, 'they posted the cctv dvd but... they apologised and resending another DVD, the ticket is on hold again for 14 days, he said, and given another ref#.


Please correct me here, should the amount not stay same £65 ?
I just checked it online on their website - showing £195

The ticket status history
03 June 2019 On Hold
The PCN has been placed on hold. While it's on hold it will not progress.

03 June 2019 Charge Certificate Batched
N/A

13 April 2019 On Hold
The PCN has been placed on hold. While it's on hold it will not progress.

01 April 2019 On Hold
The PCN has been placed on hold. While it's on hold it will not progress.

28 March 2019 PCN Batched
N/A



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post Tue, 4 Jun 2019 - 06:46
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Neil B
post Fri, 6 Sep 2019 - 13:12
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QUOTE (helping_hand @ Fri, 6 Sep 2019 - 13:34) *
1: I did not receive the Notice to Owner
2: I made reprs on Notice to Owner but didn't receive NoR

How can it be both?


--------------------
QUOTE (DancingDad @ Fri, 11 May 2018 - 12:30) *
Neil is good at working backwards.

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helping_hand
post Sat, 7 Sep 2019 - 07:14
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I was thinking 'hcandersen' message..


QUOTE (helping_hand @ Mon, 29 Jul 2019 - 15:38) *
QUOTE (hcandersen @ Thu, 4 Jul 2019 - 21:49) *
Taken in the round, I think you would be justified in submitting a WS as above. At best your SAR would confirm what you say transpired, but this would not affect how your current situation would be considered in the context of the General and Appeals Regs.

Others will have views.


2. Which option, I was thinking both (*);

*I appealed against the local authority’s decision to reject my representation, within 28 days of service of the rejection notice, but have had no response to my appeal.
*I made representations about the penalty charge to the enforcing authority concerned within 28 days of the service of the Notice to Owner, but did not receive a rejection notice.


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helping_hand
post Sat, 7 Sep 2019 - 07:25
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Please suggest which one option to select or both in my case?

*I did not receive the NtO / PCN
*I made representations on the NtO service but did not receive rejection notice


And what to write at his stage?

Thank you
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hcandersen
post Sat, 7 Sep 2019 - 07:44
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?
HCA wrote:

Procedurally the next stage is that they would issue an Order for Recovery, a SAR is extra-procedural and IMO does not address the issue i.e. what options would be available to you upon receipt of an OfR?

The answer is fairly obvious, you could either submit a witness statement(WS) or not. If you did not, then you would be left with arguing the toss with the council, but not within procedure.

IMO, you would be justified in submitting a WS under the grounds that you submitted reps but did not receive a response as prescribed.


You still seemed unsure, so i then wrote:
What did you understand your initial conversation with them to mean?

1. We will not progress enforcement until you have received the DVD which you've requested, or
2. We will send you a DVD but irrespective of whether you receive this or not we will press ahead with enforcement regardless?


To which you replied:
Surely it was point#1

And finally I wrote:
Of course it was point #1 which, IMO, entitles you to submit a witness statement under the grounds I've suggested. This is the only point of law which is at issue, all the other facts as regards procedure are already in play:


And to say it again, these grounds are:
That you submitted reps but did not receive a response as prescribed. [/i]


The reason for the long route was for YOU to satisfy yourself as to the grounds based on YOUR understanding. You had to make this journey in reasoning because YOU would sign the statement of truth which is not to be taken lightly or done frivolously.
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Neil B
post Sat, 7 Sep 2019 - 12:18
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You are complicating and getting confused about a very simple but, as HCA says, important form.

It asks for basic details, top right, then name and address.
Then tick applicable box and sign. That's all.

Which form are you using; the one on the back of the OfR or one you've downloaded?

QUOTE (helping_hand @ Fri, 6 Sep 2019 - 13:34) *
1) TE9 form name: I should put Respondent (not my actual name) but my address - correct?

Am I reading you right? You propose to write 'respondent' ? It asks for your name!


QUOTE (helping_hand @ Fri, 6 Sep 2019 - 13:34) *
2) Do I need to write all the details at this stage regarding this case from scratch?

QUOTE (helping_hand @ Sat, 7 Sep 2019 - 08:25) *
And what to write at his stage?

What details? Write where?

and
I think this may be where you misunderstand >
QUOTE (helping_hand @ Sat, 7 Sep 2019 - 08:25) *
*I did not receive the NtO / PCN

NO! Obviously not true.
The PCN IS THE NtO


If you fail to write your name
or
Tick more than one box
or
Write anything extra on the form

IT WILL NOT BE PROCESSED
The next thing will then be bailiffs at your door.


--------------------
QUOTE (DancingDad @ Fri, 11 May 2018 - 12:30) *
Neil is good at working backwards.

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cp8759
post Mon, 9 Sep 2019 - 21:12
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Maybe to be safe show us the form before you send it off, as Neil says doing it wrong can cause serious problems.


--------------------
I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
No, I am not a lawyer.
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helping_hand
post Tue, 10 Sep 2019 - 07:58
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sorry I have been thick here.. pfa (test) te9 form, I will write in black and in block letters



I think I mistakenly taking WS is about my last phone call ONLY made on 3/6 - the same day they issued CC. Hence I have been going around how to obtain the recording with the agent.
where she told me that 'CC has now been issued - on 3/6'
thought WS is to cover this part because I made reps before I receive CC in my hands (was in post). Inside I know CC has now been issued so making reps is kind of cheating with system.
as a result I have been thinking to write them in detail the whole of story to send along with te9.

I understood I do not need all this!


No sure 100% but started realising the WS is for my understanding of the communication with them that they will not progress enforcement until I have received the DVD...
I have noticed they posted tracked delivery contains the PCN dvd footage after my reps. Obviously they know the procedural issue here. Is int it?







TE9
Attached File(s)
Attached File  test.pdf ( 118.85K ) Number of downloads: 26
 
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Neil B
post Tue, 10 Sep 2019 - 11:48
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Postcode ?

----

This link explains the enforcement process.
Scroll down to Witness Statement and it explains what happens next.
And that explains why you don't have to explain anything --- yet.

https://www.londontribunals.gov.uk/eat/unde...rcement-process

This post has been edited by Neil B: Tue, 10 Sep 2019 - 11:49


--------------------
QUOTE (DancingDad @ Fri, 11 May 2018 - 12:30) *
Neil is good at working backwards.

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helping_hand
post Tue, 10 Sep 2019 - 14:27
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Thanks NeilB

That explains all smile.gif
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helping_hand
post Fri, 13 Sep 2019 - 09:48
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FYI: WS (TE9) emailed to tec@hmcts.gsi.gov.uk
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helping_hand
post Mon, 16 Sep 2019 - 12:47
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WS reply received. Should I contact TfL or wait?
Attached File(s)
Attached File  REPLY.pdf ( 44.64K ) Number of downloads: 24
 
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cp8759
post Mon, 16 Sep 2019 - 13:53
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Just wait for TFL, if you haven't heard anything in a couple of weeks chase them up.


--------------------
I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
No, I am not a lawyer.
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helping_hand
post Thu, 3 Oct 2019 - 10:33
Post #53


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fyi, called TfL, told me to wait they reply me soon, ticket is on hold
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helping_hand
post Wed, 9 Oct 2019 - 09:14
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A very thick envelope received from TfL along with appeal pack

1. Covering letter - 1 page - UPLOADED
2. Case summary WS - 4 pages - UPLOADED
3. Officer WS - 1 page - UPLOADED
5. Ticket History - 6 pages
6. Evidence Checklist - 1 page - UPLOADED
7. Many forms (including all the served notices, my reps, their correspondence, reps reply, NoR, certificate of Services, photographs, ETA Appeal Pack CD and...


Attached File(s)
Attached File  Officer_WS.pdf ( 46.3K ) Number of downloads: 12
Attached File  Summary_WS.pdf ( 212.96K ) Number of downloads: 16
Attached File  Covering_Letter.pdf ( 60.44K ) Number of downloads: 12
Attached File  Checklist_WS.pdf ( 81.57K ) Number of downloads: 9
 
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spaceman
post Wed, 9 Oct 2019 - 11:32
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Are you able to upload Section C of the authority's evidence?
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hcandersen
post Wed, 9 Oct 2019 - 12:50
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It's not an appeal, it is the authority 'referring the case to the adjudicator'.

There is NO action for the OP to take.

Contrary to their covering letter, the case is not subject to an appeal, they have got ahead of themselves and misled the owner.

OP, wait for the adjudicator's directions letter which will inform you what information, if any, he needs from you in order to decide whether to hear this as an appeal.

OP, have you heard from the adjudicator?

OP, will you please, please, please, stop phoning TfL. If you want to contact them, then email or write.

This post has been edited by hcandersen: Wed, 9 Oct 2019 - 12:51
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cp8759
post Wed, 9 Oct 2019 - 14:14
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What's happened to your SARs for the phone recordings?

Also post up a screenshot (not a transcript) of the status case history as per TFL's website.


--------------------
I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
No, I am not a lawyer.
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helping_hand
post Wed, 9 Oct 2019 - 16:01
Post #58


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QUOTE (hcandersen @ Wed, 9 Oct 2019 - 13:50) *
OP, have you heard from the adjudicator?

OP, will you please, please, please, stop phoning TfL. If you want to contact them, then email or write.



No, not heard from adj yet. OK no more ph calls to them.

QUOTE (cp8759 @ Wed, 9 Oct 2019 - 15:14) *
What's happened to your SARs for the phone recordings?

Also post up a screenshot (not a transcript) of the status case history as per TFL's website.



Nothing heard on SAR. Should I send an email chase?

History snapshots attached

History snapshots attached
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helping_hand
post Wed, 9 Oct 2019 - 16:12
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QUOTE (spaceman @ Wed, 9 Oct 2019 - 12:32) *
Are you able to upload Section C of the authority's evidence?


Sorry what is section C?

There is one form called Evidence Form C
it says; 16 pages attached, contains PCN, PA/SEO's notes, Statement by witness, certified copy of PCN one each



I also found in the envelope;

street map & signboard related paperwork

GLA 2007 No 421
GLA 2018 No.0074

Pls let me know what other documents to upload?
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cp8759
post Wed, 9 Oct 2019 - 18:52
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Chase the SARs.


--------------------
I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
No, I am not a lawyer.
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