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PCN issued at 70151 station road newham london while the machine was faulty, PCN issued while the machine was faulty
boxer29
post Sat, 20 Apr 2019 - 17:49
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while visiting London and staying in a flat I parked my car in the station road and tried to pay but the machine lcd was giving an error message, I did not had any other option to download the paybyphone app pay with this ,the car ticket expired at around 16.45 and I tried to extend the time by extending the ticket by paying more but the app failed to take money by giving me a message that my parking can not be extended at 16.56.
I tried to move my car but it was sandwiched in two cars so cant move. To my surprise when I saw the parking attended standing next to the car I told him I tried all option to pay and move the car and he can see that I was in no position to move the car as the cars parked in front and rear were so close that it was impossible to move my car without damaging.
the front car was parked in the e charging bay and the vehicle behind was in the bay as it was a parking bay for two cars and the front bays were for the e charging cars.
I have taken all the photos of the machine and a screen shot of my app which will not allow me to extend my parking.
the parking fine was issued at 17.13 and I tried to pay with the app at 16.56 which came with an error "your parking cannot be extended."
I don't want to pay the 80 pounds fine now as I tried my best to extend the parking time by paying the amount for 2 hours which is 3 pounds.
I also rang the parking company and explained to them about the events as I also explained to the parking attended putting the ticket on my car. but he said he has issued the ticket and I can only appeal against it now.
any help how do I complaint about this





This post has been edited by boxer29: Sat, 20 Apr 2019 - 17:50
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post Sat, 20 Apr 2019 - 17:49
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cp8759
post Thu, 25 Apr 2019 - 16:51
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Post a draft on here before submitting anything.


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boxer29
post Tue, 30 Apr 2019 - 13:24
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QUOTE (cp8759 @ Thu, 25 Apr 2019 - 17:51) *
Post a draft on here before submitting anything.

I have thought about adding the time to this and send this. pls let me know if you guys are happy with this.

At ** I tried to purchase further parking time;
The **** app rejected my attempt to pay.
I went to my car to move it out of the parking place and arrived there *** minutes before/after my time expired.
**** this part baffles me: what is the link between the m/c and your app? Anyway,
I found my car boxed in. I tried to move but could not; I tried to pay, but was not allowed.
I later tried to buy more time but the app on my phone refused .

On the above facts I would request the council to please cancel the PCN .

ps I also want to attach the car picture boxed in which I have posted on this forum, and as mentioned earlier in the post.
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cp8759
post Tue, 30 Apr 2019 - 14:28
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Revised draft:
----------------------

Dear Sir or Madam,

I was aware that my paid for time was due to expire so I attempted to purchase further time at **, however the app rejected my attempt to pay. I therefore returned to my car to move it out of the parking place and arrived there *** minutes before my time expired.

Unfortunately, as the attached pictures demonstrate, I found my car boxed in. I tried to move but could not; I tried to pay, but was not allowed. Had my vehicle not been boxed in, I would have removed my vehicle and the alleged contravention could not have been alleged, as my vehicle would not have been there. Had it been possible to purchase more time, I would have done so, but this was not an option as it proved impossible to purchase an extension of time.

Being boxed in, and thus a victim of a crime (obstructing the highway being a criminal offence), I found myself in a situation where I was unable to move the vehicle due to reasons beyond my control. In the circumstances, the alleged contravention did not occur.


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boxer29
post Thu, 13 Jun 2019 - 09:54
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got the reply back for newham council dated 11.6.19
they have rejected it stating
"you have stated in you appeal that you were prevented from removing your vehicle as it was boxed in by other vehicles. when parking your vehicle, you need to ensure you left enough space to maneuver out of the space when you were ready to leave should you have felt you needed more space to carry out this action.
There is no evidence to suggest that you were prevented from moving your vehicle.

Taking all the above into consideration, no reason has been found to cancel the penalty."
the discounted payment will be accepted in full and final settlement if paid not later than the last day of the period of 14 days beginning with the date of service of this letter."

any thoughts how to proceed further ..


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Mad Mick V
post Thu, 13 Jun 2019 - 16:58
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"There is no evidence to suggest that you were prevented from moving your vehicle"

Go back to the Council and ask them to look at the CEO's photos and confirm that they have considered this aspect of your challenge. You might infer that you believe their response was wholly unreasonable given that their own photos confirm you were blocked in.

Mick
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cp8759
post Thu, 13 Jun 2019 - 18:44
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Do as Mick suggests, and in any event wait for the Notice to Owner. On that point, is the V5C in your name? If yes, double check the address is correct.


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boxer29
post Thu, 13 Jun 2019 - 19:30
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QUOTE (cp8759 @ Thu, 13 Jun 2019 - 19:44) *
Do as Mick suggests, and in any event wait for the Notice to Owner. On that point, is the V5C in your name? If yes, double check the address is correct.


Its weired they havent looked at the pictures or mentioned the pictures which i sent in the post with my appeal ,Will try to upload the letter
The v5c is in my name and the address is correct .
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cp8759
post Thu, 13 Jun 2019 - 19:32
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QUOTE (boxer29 @ Thu, 13 Jun 2019 - 20:30) *
Its weired they havent looked at the pictures or mentioned the pictures which i sent in the post with my appeal ,Will try to upload the letter

It's not weird at all, it's very common for an initial challenge to be dealt with by means of a boilerplate rejection letter.


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Neil B
post Thu, 13 Jun 2019 - 19:46
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QUOTE (boxer29 @ Thu, 13 Jun 2019 - 10:54) *
when parking your vehicle, you need to ensure you left enough space to maneuver out of the space when you were ready to leave should you have felt you needed more space to carry out this action.

Suggests you boxed yourself in? Wot, dropped by helicopter?


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QUOTE (DancingDad @ Fri, 11 May 2018 - 12:30) *
Neil is good at working backwards.

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boxer29
post Fri, 14 Jun 2019 - 11:24
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this was my reply to them with the pictures which I posted on the forum







This post has been edited by boxer29: Fri, 14 Jun 2019 - 12:18
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boxer29
post Fri, 14 Jun 2019 - 12:11
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this is the Newham council reply









can some one please draft something after checking this.
many thanks

This post has been edited by boxer29: Fri, 14 Jun 2019 - 12:17
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hcandersen
post Fri, 14 Jun 2019 - 12:33
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No.

Wait for the NTO and make reps.

If they are rejected then consider appealing.

Do not put even more posts here, we're at #52 already. The facts have been exhausted; their reasoning is nonsense and would be found to be so by an adj I predict.

This is no longer primarily about the contravention(but you would still include these grounds), it's about their stupidity and failure to consider which, in parking-speak, is called Procedural Impropriety.

This post has been edited by hcandersen: Fri, 14 Jun 2019 - 12:35
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boxer29
post Thu, 18 Jul 2019 - 10:03
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QUOTE (hcandersen @ Fri, 14 Jun 2019 - 13:33) *
No.

Wait for the NTO and make reps.

If they are rejected then consider appealing.

Do not put even more posts here, we're at #52 already. The facts have been exhausted; their reasoning is nonsense and would be found to be so by an adj I predict.

This is no longer primarily about the contravention(but you would still include these grounds), it's about their stupidity and failure to consider which, in parking-speak, is called Procedural Impropriety.

got the NTO yesterday in the post given 28 days to make reps, can some one help me with that I am attaching the letter
thanks













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cp8759
post Thu, 18 Jul 2019 - 10:23
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The gist of your representation should be the same as it was before, i.e. your car was boxed in so you couldn't move it due to reasons beyond your control.


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boxer29
post Thu, 18 Jul 2019 - 12:42
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QUOTE (cp8759 @ Thu, 18 Jul 2019 - 11:23) *
The gist of your representation should be the same as it was before, i.e. your car was boxed in so you couldn't move it due to reasons beyond your control.

thanks I have got some points drafted out like the old letter which I sent to the council, are you guys happy for me to send the same letter with the photographs as say that my car was boxed and could not be moved, this was beyond my control.
or
if you want me to add anything else more pls do help me here.
thanks
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cp8759
post Thu, 18 Jul 2019 - 12:53
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Start by putting a draft of what you plan on sending on here.


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Mad Mick V
post Thu, 18 Jul 2019 - 16:43
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OP----stick something in your appeal which will grab the Council's attention. Something like:-

I would regard any further refusal or non consideration of my key ground of appeal as being wholly unreasonable and vexatious. The Council's own timed and dated photographs clearly demonstrate that the vehicle could not be moved at the time of the alleged contravention.

That would set them up for a costs submission if the matter gets to adjudication.

Mick
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boxer29
post Sun, 21 Jul 2019 - 10:06
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QUOTE (Mad Mick V @ Thu, 18 Jul 2019 - 17:43) *
OP----stick something in your appeal which will grab the Council's attention. Something like:-

I would regard any further refusal or non consideration of my key ground of appeal as being wholly unreasonable and vexatious. The Council's own timed and dated photographs clearly demonstrate that the vehicle could not be moved at the time of the alleged contravention.

That would set them up for a costs submission if the matter gets to adjudication.

Mick

thanks
was thinking to post the draft in post 50 with the lines which you mentioned as well which sounds good to me .

I would regard any further refusal or non consideration of my key ground of appeal as being wholly unreasonable and vexatious. The Council's own timed and dated photographs clearly demonstrate that the vehicle could not be moved at the time of the alleged contravention.

Or whats your expert opinion with a draft should mention anything else .
many thanks
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cp8759
post Mon, 22 Jul 2019 - 13:03
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QUOTE (boxer29 @ Sun, 21 Jul 2019 - 11:06) *
I would regard any further refusal or non consideration of my key ground of appeal as being wholly unreasonable and vexatious. The Council's own timed and dated photographs clearly demonstrate that the vehicle could not be moved at the time of the alleged contravention.

There is some merit in this, but what you consider is irrelevant as you're not the decision maker. I would phrase it more like "The tribunal might regard refusal or non consideration of my key ground of appeal as wholly unreasonable and/or vexatious".


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boxer29
post Mon, 22 Jul 2019 - 15:05
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QUOTE (cp8759 @ Mon, 22 Jul 2019 - 14:03) *
QUOTE (boxer29 @ Sun, 21 Jul 2019 - 11:06) *
I would regard any further refusal or non consideration of my key ground of appeal as being wholly unreasonable and vexatious. The Council's own timed and dated photographs clearly demonstrate that the vehicle could not be moved at the time of the alleged contravention.

There is some merit in this, but what you consider is irrelevant as you're not the decision maker. I would phrase it more like "The tribunal might regard refusal or non consideration of my key ground of appeal as wholly unreasonable and/or vexatious".


I agree with you here,
will try to add the above line ,
any thing else for other brains before I finalise this
many thanks
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