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Speeding and timing of insurance
Tsietisin
post Wed, 22 May 2019 - 07:22
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I recent got flashed speeding. I did it, no question about that, I'll hold my hands up to it.

My question, is that my insurance renewal is due in 5 days. I only received the NIP yesterday so still have some time before sending it back and paying the fine.

Am I convicted at this point? could I legitimately renew my insurance stating no convictions?

This post has been edited by Tsietisin: Wed, 22 May 2019 - 07:22
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post Wed, 22 May 2019 - 07:22
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samthecat
post Wed, 22 May 2019 - 07:49
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You need to carefully read what your insurers terms and conditions say.

You have not yet been convicted however you may have a pending conviction.

Presumably from your OP you have been offered a fixed penalty but not a speed awareness course?



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Jlc
post Wed, 22 May 2019 - 08:08
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QUOTE (Tsietisin @ Wed, 22 May 2019 - 08:22) *
Am I convicted at this point?

No. At this time they are simply asking for the driver for an alleged offence.

QUOTE (Tsietisin @ Wed, 22 May 2019 - 08:22) *
could I legitimately renew my insurance stating no convictions?

You have no conviction. BUT the insurer will most likely ask whether there are any pending - as already noted, check the wording carefully.


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RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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Redivi
post Wed, 22 May 2019 - 11:03
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This would be an interesting situation

The Notice of Intention to Prosecute is by definition a statement that a conviction is pending

Even if the OP accepts a course offer, it's still pending until the course is completed and prosecution is off the table

The only reason to attend the course is to avoid the potential extra insurance costs following a Fixed Penalty
If the OP is going to incur the costs anyway it makes no sense to waste a day on a course if it's offered and he should accept the 3 points
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The Rookie
post Wed, 22 May 2019 - 11:18
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QUOTE (Redivi @ Wed, 22 May 2019 - 12:03) *
The Notice of Intention to Prosecute is by definition a statement that a conviction is pending

No its not, by definition its a notice that says they have an intent to prosecute.

Between the NIP and a conviction are
1. May be offered a course
2. May be offered a fixed penalty (which is NOT a conviction)
3. May be dropped by the Police for a variety of reasons
4. There may be a successful defence
and the killer
5. The recipient may not have been driving anyway

Of course 'pending convictions' is a meaningless combination of words anyway, a conviction is never pending, it has happened or it MAY happen but there is rarely (guilty plea and hearing adjourned before sentencing such as transfer from SJ to Mag's is about the only circumstance I can think of where it works) a pending conviction.

Arguably if you have a NIP and are confident you meet the criteria for a course you can answer no, its probably stretching the 'man in the pub' interpretation where it would relate to an FP though.


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Redivi
post Wed, 22 May 2019 - 11:55
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The definition I found for "pending" was "awaiting decision or settlement" which included all the possible outcomes

Completely agree though that a conviction can't itself with rare exceptions be pending
If anything it's the prosecution that's pending

I would personally go for the "No" answer in this situation
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NewJudge
post Wed, 22 May 2019 - 12:58
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QUOTE (Redivi @ Wed, 22 May 2019 - 12:55) *
I would personally go for the "No" answer in this situation

Personally I would examine my Policy documents carefully. I doubt they will ask about "pending convictions" as I agree it is somewhat meaningless. If it is not clear, contact the insurers to establish what you are obliged to tell them about.

QUOTE (The Rookie @ Wed, 22 May 2019 - 12:18) *
(guilty plea and hearing adjourned before sentencing such as transfer from SJ to Mag's is about the only circumstance I can think of where it works) a pending conviction.

A guilty plea in response to a SJPN results in an immediate conviction (by the Single Justice). If the SJ believes the matter should go before a full Bench (normally if disqualification is under consideration) the matter is simply adjourned by the SJ for sentence.

This post has been edited by NewJudge: Wed, 22 May 2019 - 13:03
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The Rookie
post Wed, 22 May 2019 - 13:34
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AIUI you can submit a guilty plea and ask for sentencing to be in the magistrates court (to allow you to present mitigation)?


--------------------
There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
Rookies 1-0 Kent

Council PCN's
Rookies 1-0 Warwick
Rookies 1-0 Birmingham

PPC PCN's
Rookies 10-0 PPC's
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Logician
post Wed, 22 May 2019 - 13:38
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I would not risk giving an insurance company any excuse to decline a claim if one should unfortunately have to be made, so if in any doubt declare it.


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NewJudge
post Wed, 22 May 2019 - 15:35
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QUOTE (The Rookie @ Wed, 22 May 2019 - 14:34) *
AIUI you can submit a guilty plea and ask for sentencing to be in the magistrates court (to allow you to present mitigation)?

Such a matter would be unlikely to go before a SJ. The defendant would simply plead guilty and ask for a full court hearing. There is no point in adding it to the SJ list as the SJ has nothing to do.
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samthecat
post Wed, 22 May 2019 - 16:57
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QUOTE (NewJudge @ Wed, 22 May 2019 - 12:58) *
Personally I would examine my Policy documents carefully. I doubt they will ask about "pending convictions" as I agree it is somewhat meaningless.


Apologies, I mentioned that phrase in the first reply as it came to mind that it was something insurers sometimes asked. It may well be worded differently.


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cp8759
post Thu, 23 May 2019 - 12:40
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QUOTE (The Rookie @ Wed, 22 May 2019 - 12:18) *
Of course 'pending convictions' is a meaningless combination of words anyway, a conviction is never pending, it has happened or it MAY happen but there is rarely (guilty plea and hearing adjourned before sentencing such as transfer from SJ to Mag's is about the only circumstance I can think of where it works) a pending conviction.

I'm not sure that example would work either. Someone who's been convicted and awaiting sentence has been convicted, so the conviction is not pending, only the sentence is. I suspect the policy wording will say "pending prosecutions" or "pending proceedings" or similar.


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