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Coach trip, Changed agenda
Dwain
post Tue, 25 Sep 2018 - 12:53
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Hi all,

I am after some advice.

My wife and her friend booked a coach trip to London in February with David Ogden tours, traveling on the 28th September, they paid a deposit, the reason for the trip was to visit the houses of Parliment, there was also a visit to Buckingham Palace, however they have done that in the past and so were not particually interested in this part. The trip included coach travel, two nights in a hotel and entry to the attractions listed.

So fast forward to last week David Ogden Travel informed them that the houses of Parliment part of the trip had been cancelled as they were closed. Obviously my wife and her friend were dismayed and requested a refund, this was declined as the company claimed that because the tour was such a small part of the tour it did not constitute a major change. Our view is of course different.

I am wondering what our options are, credit card chargeback, small claims court?

To justify any action I will be using the following fact, the Houses of Parliment website stated on the 25th of May 2018 that they tour would not happen on the 25th of September, full payment for the tour happened early in August when David Ogden travel should have been aware of the cancellation of the tour, my belief is that they waited until a week prior to departure to minimise any refund.

Any advice gratefully recieved.
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post Tue, 25 Sep 2018 - 12:53
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southpaw82
post Tue, 25 Sep 2018 - 14:20
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As ever, what does the contract say about it?


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Any comments made do not constitute legal advice and should not be relied upon. No lawyer/client relationship should be assumed nor should any duty of care be owed.
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Dwain
post Tue, 25 Sep 2018 - 15:15
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The companies terms and condiations state that a refund will only be given if a major change happens, they list examples as change of pickup location and change of time by 12 hours or more. Not the cancellation of what my wife and her friend consider a major part of the trip.

My argument is, if I booked to see a event/concert/football match which involved travel and the event was cancelled, especially with a good few months notice prior to taking final payment I wouold expect.

1. Final payment not to be taken or
2. A full refund

I truely believe that notification of canceletion of the Parliment tour was left as late as possible to prevent refunds. I think the travel company were negligent in continuing to offer/charge for this service when it was in the public domain that it could not be delivered. As such I am off the (Perhaps incorrect) opinion that the companies terms and conditions would be regarded as unfair.

And thats why I am here for advice smile.gif

This post has been edited by Dwain: Tue, 25 Sep 2018 - 15:16
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southpaw82
post Tue, 25 Sep 2018 - 18:20
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And how much are we talking about here?


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Dwain
post Tue, 25 Sep 2018 - 19:04
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Just under £400 for the two of them.

Thanks
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mickR
post Tue, 25 Sep 2018 - 23:10
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Misrepresentation ?
Consumer rights act 2015 supply of goods and services, must use reasonable care and skill. Might fit the bill.
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The Rookie
post Wed, 26 Sep 2018 - 04:57
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Depends when it became known parliament would be closed, if at the time it would be open then reasonable care and skill would have been exercised AT THAT TIME. But then they should have stayed aware........

They should have known since 25th May it was closed so they could have contacted travellers a fair bit earlier allowing cancellations and new bookings to fill the gaps, issue of their own making I'd say.
https://www.parliament.uk/visiting/visiting...r-october-2018/


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mickR
post Wed, 26 Sep 2018 - 09:06
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I would guess the houses of parliament tour was a major selling point of the trip and therefore a major change if it was not supplied. Grounds for a refund from supplier or claim under section 75 on your card.
You mention chargeback but say credit card? If it was a visa debit card the visa rules on chargeback are very similar to their credit card. MasterCard however are very different and I found unhelpful in the extreme (as a result all my master cards went in the shredder).
I would expect a travel company to monitor it excursions and notify customers of change without delay.

I would say you have many sticks to poke with and personally would do this....

First off "complaint" to company. Get a reply in writing.
State consumer rights act 2015, breach of contract due not supplying the goods and service paid for and not using reasonable care and skill to administer your package and you request a full refund (assuming your wife didn't actually go on any part of the trip)
If they don't respond favourably then social media can be a good tool as long as you only state fact.
Go to card company.

This post has been edited by mickR: Wed, 26 Sep 2018 - 09:13
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Dwain
post Wed, 26 Sep 2018 - 10:10
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Thanks all, I have posted on their Facebook page, facts only no emotion. We have submitted a complaint in writing, they have offered a refund of £16 each for the cost of entry to the Houses of Parliment.

The thing is, the girls really don't want to go to London just to do things they have done in the past, the company have offered other dates, however given the notice involved neither can cancel the holiday booked through work, and in the case of my wife she has no holidays left to cover the offered alternative.

Given that the public notifcation of closuse was on the House of Parliment website in May and they paid the remainder in August I am really at a loss as to how the company can refuse a full refund. They had plenty of time to inform the customers and rearrange/reshedule the event, however due ti incompetance it appears they didn't and waited until almost the last minute to inform customers.

Thanks for the help so far smile.gif

Andy

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Jlc
post Wed, 26 Sep 2018 - 11:25
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QUOTE (Dwain @ Wed, 26 Sep 2018 - 11:10) *
...they have offered a refund of £16 each for the cost of entry to the Houses of Parliment.

Shouldn't this have happened regardless of a complaint?


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PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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Dwain
post Wed, 26 Sep 2018 - 12:37
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Hi,

It appears a full refund is on it's way, I do wonder if mention of this https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverp...d-after-3405262 had any effect.

Thanks for the help all.

Andy
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Jlc
post Wed, 26 Sep 2018 - 12:42
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icon_thumleft.gif

I had a little browse of their website - this trip is still on there, including the HoP...


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RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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Redivi
post Wed, 26 Sep 2018 - 14:09
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QUOTE (Dwain @ Wed, 26 Sep 2018 - 13:37) *
Hi,

It appears a full refund is on it's way, I do wonder if mention of this https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverp...d-after-3405262 had any effect.

Thanks for the help all.

Andy

That's good

I was wondering if you might fall foul of Herne Bay Steamboat Co. v Hutton (1903)

This concerned a contract to use a boat on a specified date to see the naval review and for a day's cruise around the fleet.

The review was cancelled but the court ruled that the contract wasn't discharged by frustration because the fleet remained to be seen
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Dwain
post Wed, 26 Sep 2018 - 15:15
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QUOTE (Redivi @ Wed, 26 Sep 2018 - 15:09) *
QUOTE (Dwain @ Wed, 26 Sep 2018 - 13:37) *
Hi,

It appears a full refund is on it's way, I do wonder if mention of this https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverp...d-after-3405262 had any effect.

Thanks for the help all.

Andy

That's good

I was wondering if you might fall foul of Herne Bay Steamboat Co. v Hutton (1903)

This concerned a contract to use a boat on a specified date to see the naval review and for a day's cruise around the fleet.

The review was cancelled but the court ruled that the contract wasn't discharged by frustration because the fleet remained to be seen


Yes I suppose they could have stood outside the HOP and looked at the building smile.gif

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roythebus
post Fri, 28 Sep 2018 - 12:27
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Frustration of contract is an interesting law and one I've used a couple of times. It's where neither party is "guilty" of anything due to circumstances outside their control.

The first use of it was back in the 1700's, a sailor was working across the Atlantic and sadly died on the journey. His widow tried to claim his wages for the entire journey. It was ruled that it wasn't the sailor's fault that he was unable to complete the voyage, nor was it the shipping company's fault. The contract was frustrated.

In this case, I'd say David Ogden is a reputable tour operator but should really have known the non-availability of the HoC tour that far in advance. For someone to spend £400 on a coach tour to London just for that tour seems a bit far-fetched. they could have still had the holiday and enjoyed the hotel, coach journey and looked round other places in London. There's lots of non-touristy bits to see.
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StuartBu
post Fri, 28 Sep 2018 - 13:34
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QUOTE (roythebus @ Fri, 28 Sep 2018 - 13:27) *
For someone to spend £400 on a coach tour to London just for that tour seems a bit far-fetched. they could have still had the holiday and enjoyed the hotel, coach journey and looked round other places in London. There's lots of non-touristy bits to see.


I don't think it's being said that they ONLY went for that tour of the HofP but that it was a major part of them deciding to go. Remove that and there is much less attraction to what is left .
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mickR
post Fri, 28 Sep 2018 - 19:03
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QUOTE (roythebus @ Fri, 28 Sep 2018 - 13:27) *
In this case, I'd say David Ogden is a reputable tour operator


The post earlier might suggest otherwise Roy
https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverp...d-after-3405262
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Stedman
post Fri, 28 Sep 2018 - 21:51
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You can just contact your local MP to arrange a tour of the Houses of Parliament (and, separately, Queen Elizabeth's Tour aka Big Ben) free of charge. They have a yearly allowance of tickets for their constituents.
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roythebus
post Mon, 1 Oct 2018 - 23:00
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QUOTE (mickR @ Fri, 28 Sep 2018 - 20:03) *
QUOTE (roythebus @ Fri, 28 Sep 2018 - 13:27) *
In this case, I'd say David Ogden is a reputable tour operator


The post earlier might suggest otherwise Roy
https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverp...d-after-3405262
Seems you're right there! Being in the trade you get certain impressions of certain firms and obviously my impression of that lot have changed!!
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Dwain
post Tue, 2 Oct 2018 - 18:56
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QUOTE (roythebus @ Fri, 28 Sep 2018 - 13:27) *
Frustration of contract is an interesting law and one I've used a couple of times. It's where neither party is "guilty" of anything due to circumstances outside their control.

The first use of it was back in the 1700's, a sailor was working across the Atlantic and sadly died on the journey. His widow tried to claim his wages for the entire journey. It was ruled that it wasn't the sailor's fault that he was unable to complete the voyage, nor was it the shipping company's fault. The contract was frustrated.

In this case, I'd say David Ogden is a reputable tour operator but should really have known the non-availability of the HoC tour that far in advance. For someone to spend £400 on a coach tour to London just for that tour seems a bit far-fetched. they could have still had the holiday and enjoyed the hotel, coach journey and looked round other places in London. There's lots of non-touristy bits to see.


Hi, It was for two people, two nights in hotel and transport, there was a tour of Buckingham palace, however the girls had done that before. One of the travelers is a particually prickily person smile.gif
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