MS90 Total Panic, Unaware of fine Options

[Lozza1981]

Hello,

I'm hoping someone can help a very stressed out lady!!!

Today I received a court fine for an MS90. I had no other letters as to a speeding fine or anything. So on further investigation, I hadn't changed the address with the DVLA. I did on my licence but not on my log book. I'm an idiot. So this means all letters must have gone to my previous address.

Anyway I can't phone the court until Monday to find out where or when the offence happened. Would it be logical to assume the offence date would be around a month prior to the MS90 issue date?

Any advice or pearls of wisdom for me??

Thank you in advance.

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[Jlc]

Any advice or pearls of wisdom for me??

Not an unusual situation. You have to perform a Statutory Declaration - contact the court to book yourself in.

It should be recoverable to the original offence (speeding/red light?) but will require attendance at court. Unfortunately, you'll likely be sentenced on your income but much better than a MS90!

Would it be logical to assume the offence date would be around a month prior to the MS90 issue date?

Normally, yes.

[Lozza1981]

Thank you for your reply. When you say sentenced in your income? What do you mean?

[Jlc]

Thank you for your reply. When you say sentenced in your income? What do you mean?

It depends on what the original offence was. But for normal excesses you get offered a fixed penalty (3 points £100).

At court there is a sentencing guide which is based upon your weekly relevant income. Say for 38 in a 30 this would be around 33% of your income, plus costs of £85 and surcharge (10% of fine, min £30).

The sentencing guidelines do have provision for fixed penalty equivalents - worth asking for but not guaranteed. (Best case would be £70 fine, £30 surcharge, no costs order for example)

The wording from the guidelines:

where a penalty notice could not be offered or taken up for reasons unconnected with the offence
itself, such as administrative difficulties outside the control of the offender, the starting point
should be a fine equivalent to the amount of the penalty and no order of costs should be
imposed. The offender should not be disadvantaged by the unavailability of the penalty notice in
these circumstances.

Arguably, the reasons why you could not accept one are unconnected with the offence itself - but the court may take the view you contributed to the failure...

...caveat being able to 'plea bargain' the s172 to the underlying charge.

[Lozza1981]

Right okay ......
So what happens with a statutory declaration? There is some advice to plead guilty to the speeding offence and not guilty to the failure to give details. Then some people saying plead not guilty to both!

Very confused...

[666]

Right okay ......
So what happens with a statutory declaration? There is some advice to plead guilty to the speeding offence and not guilty to the failure to give details. Then some people saying plead not guilty to both!

Very confused...

Plead NG to both. A data will be set for a trial, where you can (almost certainly) Do a plea bargain.

If you plead guilty to the speeding prior to trial, you have nothing to bargain with!

[Logician]

The best course of action depends to some extent on how far you were over the limit, if you were going so fast that you would normally be disqualified, then you might be better off just accepting the 6 points from the MS90, of course you do not know the speed or limit from the paperwork, but it would be substantially over 50 in a 30 limit or 100 in a 70 limit for example, which you might remember.

Under current practice, you will probably be asked to plead to both offence as soon as you have made the statutory declaration. Provided the speeding offence would attract less than 6 points on its own, you should plead Not Guilty to both offences, and then attend court on the date set. As there is no evidence as to who was driving your car, since you have not told them, there can be no conviction for the speeding unless you plead guilty. Get to court early and ask one of the ushers (people scurrying about with clipboards and possibly gowns getting things organised) to point out to you the prosecutor who will be dealing with traffic matters. Say to him/her that you will plead guilty to the speeding if they will drop the s.172. We have never heard of prosecutors refusing to do this, they prefer to get a conviction for the underlying offence, and regard the two offences as effectively alternative offences. If you do not manage to speak to the prosecutor beforehand, you should still be able to do the deal in the courtroom. It is very difficult to do this in advance of the court hearing as you would have trouble speaking to the right person.
If you had received the NIP you could have nominated yourself as the driver and would then have received the offer of a fixed penalty if the offence fell within that range. The normal sentencing for speeding in court would be rather more severe than this, so you would have been disadvantaged. Therefore you should point this out to the court and request to be sentenced at the fixed penalty level, which is a guideline for magistrates' courts in these circumstances. The actual wording of the guideline is:

Where a penalty notice could not be offered or taken up for reasons unconnected with the offence itself, such as administrative difficulties outside the control of the offender, the starting point should be a fine equivalent to the amount of the penalty and no order of costs should be imposed. The offender should not be disadvantaged by the unavailability of the penalty notice in these circumstances

[Lozza1981]

Thank you this reply!! I feel much clearer now. I will ring the court and find out exactly what the charge is. I'm no speed demon so I assume it won't be a horrendous speeding charge.

Is there anywhere I can get a statutory declaration template or example?

[Logician]

Thank you this reply!! I feel much clearer now. I will ring the court and find out exactly what the charge is. I'm no speed demon so I assume it won't be a horrendous speeding charge. Is there anywhere I can get a statutory declaration template or example?

No need, they will provide that at the court and help you to complete it. You then go into the courtroom and read it out in front of the bench, after a solemn warning against making a false declaration. You might like to practise saying "conscientiously" out loud, a lot of people stumble over it!

[Lozza1981]

So from what I can work out, the original offence was January 12th. So does this mean it's too late as it's passed 6 months?

This post has been edited by Lozza1981: Sat, 27 Jul 2019 - 16:05

[Jlc]

No, depends on whether they pursued the underlying charge originally. The 6 months is to commence proceedings.

[andy_foster]

So what happens with a statutory declaration? There is some advice to plead guilty to the speeding offence and not guilty to the failure to give details. Then some people saying plead not guilty to both!

The 'procedure' seems to vary from court to court.

In theory, once the stat. dec. is out of the way, you plead not guilty to both charges (assuming that both offences were originally charged), otherwise you risk being punished for the motoring offence that they could not realistically prove and still being prosecuted for the s. 172 offence. In theory the court cannot 'do a deal' with you, only the prosecution can.

However, it appears in some cases that the court itself has dropped the s. 172 when the accused pleaded guilty to the underlying motoring offence.

It would seem prudent when asked for a plea to mention that you understand that in such cases it is quite common for the s. 172 charge to be dropped in return for pleading guilty to the original offence, and politely enquire whether this is something that the court would be willing to do. As such deals are a common occurrence, I would not be surprised if the legal advisor interrupted you with the answer while you were still part way through stumbling through the question.

The bottom line is not to plead guilty to the original offence unless and until you have done a deal.

[Lozza1981]

So what's the alternative if I'm not being charged for both? Will they just try and charge me for the ms90?

[Jlc]

Yes, which is harder as they may consider you contributed to the failure.

[Lozza1981]

Okay so if they are only charging me on the failure to furnish, what is the best way forward?
I'm ringing the court tomorrow to try and get some clarity. Not really sure what to ask when I do.

[The Rookie]

Okay so if they are only charging me on the failure to furnish, what is the best way forward?

Probably to plead guilty I’m afraid.

[Lozza1981]

Will that mean bigger costs and fines?

[The Rookie]

Bigger than what?

Than now, no.

Than the speeding, depends on the alleged speed.....which is......

[Logician]

I seem to recall we have had some instances where the speeding charge has been resurrected.

[Jlc]

One, but is rare.