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Red Route Stopping and Blue Badge
Gari
post Mon, 17 Dec 2018 - 16:57
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Hi All,

I received PCN for parking on a Double Red lines. However I only stopped there to drop my wife and then drove off.


Alleged contravention happened in Reading Council area and evidence is taken via mobile CCTV Car.

My Wife holds the blue badge and as per Reading Council website, Dropping and picking off is allowed for Blue badge holders on red route.

Please let me know if I can contest it.

Location Image in Attachment.





Video Link

This post has been edited by Gari: Wed, 19 Dec 2018 - 18:17
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post Mon, 17 Dec 2018 - 16:57
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PASTMYBEST
post Mon, 17 Dec 2018 - 17:03
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reading, always the most reasonable of councils. There is very likely a lot wrong with the PCN post all sides so we can check, but it should be a straight forward matter


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DancingDad
post Mon, 17 Dec 2018 - 21:03
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Was the BB on display when dropping off ?

Or to put it another way, did the CCTV car film enough of the screen to show whether or not it was?


There should be an exemption within the TRO for boarding alighting of BB holders, certainly is in London Red Routes
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Gari
post Mon, 17 Dec 2018 - 23:22
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As per the evidence CCTV car was behind me so No they did not have view of my windshield. Infact video evidence just shows that CCTV car just drove off while I turned and stopped in the bay.

This the Reading Councils Red Route Policy.

http://www.reading.gov.uk/redroute

What I do not understand is that how can they serve PCN without verifying , Does that mean every BB holder will have to contest it.

Another thing, How will I prove that I didn't stop there for more then a 1-2 min and was dropping my wife who is BB holder.
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Slapdash
post Tue, 18 Dec 2018 - 00:25
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Notwithstanding the fact that they cannot know whether an occupant of the vehicle was a blue badge holder this statement in their policy makes little sense anyway:-

"and blue badge holders, who are allowed to stop to let passengers in and out"

That seems to imply the driver must be the bb holder which is somewhat bizarre.
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Incandescent
post Tue, 18 Dec 2018 - 08:37
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Well we all know Reading as one of the more venal and rapacious councils, so they ignore their own guidance because they know most people just cough-up to get the discount and never query the PCN.

This post has been edited by Incandescent: Tue, 18 Dec 2018 - 08:37
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DancingDad
post Tue, 18 Dec 2018 - 09:26
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QUOTE (Gari @ Mon, 17 Dec 2018 - 23:22) *
...........Another thing, How will I prove that I didn't stop there for more then a 1-2 min and was dropping my wife who is BB holder.


If it is a CCTV based PCN then there will be a video that shows the alleged contravention.
That will be what an adjudicator would be looking at while considering any appeal that may get that far.
And will show if you need to be worried about 30seconds or 10 minutes.
You need to see it.
There should be information on how to view it on the PCN ?

Let's see the PCN please?
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Gari
post Tue, 18 Dec 2018 - 10:05
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QUOTE (DancingDad @ Tue, 18 Dec 2018 - 09:26) *
QUOTE (Gari @ Mon, 17 Dec 2018 - 23:22) *
...........Another thing, How will I prove that I didn't stop there for more then a 1-2 min and was dropping my wife who is BB holder.


If it is a CCTV based PCN then there will be a video that shows the alleged contravention.
That will be what an adjudicator would be looking at while considering any appeal that may get that far.
And will show if you need to be worried about 30seconds or 10 minutes.
You need to see it.
There should be information on how to view it on the PCN ?

Let's see the PCN please?


Hello, Yes , There is Video, However as it was CCTV on car behind me , It just drive past me. Video Shows me turning in to bay and stopping , and displaying contravention at that point.
However CCTV car keep driving and moved on ( ie I am in video for less then 30 sec)

I am not sure if I can download the video and share but will try. I will also share the PCN in evening.

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Slapdash
post Tue, 18 Dec 2018 - 10:26
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Why would the blue badge be displayed anyway. ? It makes no sense.

The badge holder would normally take it with them (I know I do but no red routes here).

They may well need it for whoever is collecting them, or for later in the day.

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DancingDad
post Tue, 18 Dec 2018 - 12:03
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QUOTE (Slapdash @ Tue, 18 Dec 2018 - 10:26) *
Why would the blue badge be displayed anyway. ? It makes no sense...……..


I'm just stating what TFL require on their Red Routes, Reading may not have same requirement.

A drive by CCTV video should be easy to beat on this, doesn't matter if OP was still there 10 minutes later, the council cannot evidence it.
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Gari
post Tue, 18 Dec 2018 - 23:19
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I have uploaded the PCN.

I now have video evidence downloaded as well but not able to find the way to share it here.

Please let me know if required and I will try to upload it on you tube.
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Mad Mick V
post Wed, 19 Dec 2018 - 06:32
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OP-----have you blanked out the contravention on the PCN? All it says is "stopped where prohibited (On a"

If that's all it states then IMO it does not justify the use of cameras, it is insufficient for enforcement and the code is not enough.

In other words the PCN is a nullity if it does not specify red route.

Mick
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hcandersen
post Wed, 19 Dec 2018 - 08:57
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OP, pl stop repeating your questions about why they did this and why they did that!

We need the evidence which comprises:
PCN, delete ONLY your personal details;
The video.

With respect, I think you're making more of this than necessary.

If the regs allow the use of CCTV for red route contraventions, then this creates a problem for authorities. Do they not exempt BB holders etc, or do they? If they do, should they not use CCTV? Or should they be clairvoyant?

Clearly the regs create problems.

But they're easily dealt with - just submit your reps and include a copy of the BB with a short account.


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cp8759
post Wed, 19 Dec 2018 - 10:52
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Also upload the back of the PCN, use imgur.com if you run out of space.


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DancingDad
post Wed, 19 Dec 2018 - 11:17
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QUOTE (Mad Mick V @ Wed, 19 Dec 2018 - 06:32) *
OP-----have you blanked out the contravention on the PCN? All it says is "stopped where prohibited (On a"

If that's all it states then IMO it does not justify the use of cameras, it is insufficient for enforcement and the code is not enough.

In other words the PCN is a nullity if it does not specify red route.

Mick



Nice spot Mick.

Even if an adjudicator accepts that wording is sufficient to describe the contravention, they cannot levy the higher penalty without using specified words
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Gari
post Wed, 19 Dec 2018 - 18:20
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I have uploaded the PCN in better resolution now.

Mick / DancingDad , as you can see wording stops at "On a". There isn't anything after that.

I have also uploaded the link to video.

Is there any template available I can use to challenge this PCN ?
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PASTMYBEST
post Wed, 19 Dec 2018 - 18:46
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This seems to be the order

https://tro.trafficpenaltytribunal.gov.uk/T...imental-TRO.pdf

It has expired, but even if made permanent article 11(4) allows the exemption for boarding/alighting so a simple I stopped for the purpose of boarding a disabled BB holder( copy of BB enclosed) Please cancel this PCN


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cp8759
post Wed, 19 Dec 2018 - 18:47
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QUOTE (PASTMYBEST @ Wed, 19 Dec 2018 - 18:46) *
This seems to be the order

https://tro.trafficpenaltytribunal.gov.uk/T...imental-TRO.pdf

It has expired, but even if made permanent article 11(4) allows the exemption for boarding/alighting so a simple I stopped for the purpose of boarding a disabled BB holder( copy of BB enclosed) Please cancel this PCN

+1


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Mad Mick V
post Wed, 19 Dec 2018 - 21:28
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OP-----no need to upset them at this stage---go with the boarding and alighting exemption---leave the duff PCN point in reserve.

Mick
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DancingDad
post Thu, 20 Dec 2018 - 08:58
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+3
Keep it simple.

Dear Sirs
Ref PCN ????
Contravention did not occur.
I stopped solely to allow my disabled wife to alight from the vehicle as the rules of red routes allow.
The stop was for no longer then necessary.
I attach a copy of her Blue Badge to verify. (front and back)
I look forward to confirmation of the PCN cancellation.
Hugs and kisses.

If they reject we go for the same at appeal but add... following the rejection I undertook extra research and have found.....Duff PCN etc
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