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TFL PCN on red route loading bay in Lee High Road, TFL PCN on red route loading bay in Lee High Road within loading hrs
medigold
post Tue, 10 Dec 2019 - 20:26
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Hi All,
Long time not contributing ...
Until my wife had a TFL PCN last week in Lee High Road in Lewisham, South London.

She stopped in a red route loading bay to pick and load shoping within allowed loading hours (10-4pm) and did not overstayed the 20min limit, but was ticketed by TFL with observing the car for 5 mins in total.

The reason for the ticket:
"In circumstances giving me reasonable cause to believe that the vehicle was stopped where prohibited (on a red route or clearway)"

My wife had too pick heavy load - hence stopping for few minutes on a loading bay.

Do we have any grounds to contest? I see it as we can use the bay to load within 20mins, while the warden has observed the vehicle for exactly 5mins befor issuing the ticket...

Please see a picture of the signage there and a copy of the ticket.
Thank you to all in advance!


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post Tue, 10 Dec 2019 - 20:26
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stamfordman
post Tue, 10 Dec 2019 - 20:29
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You've blanked the date and times - put them back.

Do you have evidence of what was bought and loaded? And what was it?
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Incandescent
post Tue, 10 Dec 2019 - 20:47
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Sorry to have to say it, but parking-up, going shopping, then "loading" the shopping into the car does't count as a Loading/Unloading activity. Many appeals have been lost on this. On the other hand, the sign permits all vehicles engaged in loading, not just goods vehicles. So tell us a bit more about what went on as SFM suggests; there might be an appeal argument there.
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medigold
post Tue, 10 Dec 2019 - 20:47
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QUOTE (stamfordman @ Tue, 10 Dec 2019 - 20:29) *
You've blanked the date and times - put them back.


Do you have evidence of what was bought and loaded? And what was it?


Hey - that was quick - many thanks!

Sorry about the date and time - it was 0n 7/12/19 - from 13:42 to 13:47

My wife stopped to pick up large birthday cake from a cake shop about 50m accross... 2-3 mins to walk and few mins waiting for service in the shop...
Unfortunatelly my wife did not save the receipt... (only if we knew!)..

This post has been edited by medigold: Tue, 10 Dec 2019 - 20:49
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Incandescent
post Tue, 10 Dec 2019 - 22:40
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So, a presumably pre-ordered cake (for the decorations, no doubt). Collecting this having been told it was ready for collection would count as loading, I think. If you haven't got the original receipt, then you'll have to get the shop to provide a letter that you order a cake on dd/mm/yy, and collected it on dd/mm/yy. You would then submit this with your representations.

Don't expect TfL to roll over straightaway, they need all the money they can get with their enormous deficit last year, so you might have to take them to London Tribunals, but give it a go anyway.
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hcandersen
post Wed, 11 Dec 2019 - 08:25
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large birthday cake from a cake shop about 50m accross

There are two separate issues: activity undertaken and time taken.

Activity
The actual size of the cake was?
The shop was how far away?
When was the cake actually ordered and paid for? (if this was done online, then she will have some record)
If she was responding to notice from the shop to collect the cake, then she mist have this on record.

Time taken
Pl reinstate the dates and times on the PCN and re-post both sides, not just the front.
Distance from car to shop?

Are you the registered keeper of the car (just in case the contravention was recorded by camera and to check whether there might be a parallel strand of postal PCN to the keeper).
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medigold
post Wed, 11 Dec 2019 - 18:00
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Hi, here is the ticket as requested.
The shop is about 50 metres away from the spot.

Yes, I am the registered keeper of the car.
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medigold
post Wed, 11 Dec 2019 - 18:17
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QUOTE (Incandescent @ Tue, 10 Dec 2019 - 22:40) *
So, a presumably pre-ordered cake (for the decorations, no doubt). Collecting this having been told it was ready for collection would count as loading, I think. If you haven't got the original receipt, then you'll have to get the shop to provide a letter that you order a cake on dd/mm/yy, and collected it on dd/mm/yy. You would then submit this with your representations.

Don't expect TfL to roll over straightaway, they need all the money they can get with their enormous deficit last year, so you might have to take them to London Tribunals, but give it a go anyway.



Thank you for the input. Yes, the cake was pre-ordered and ready to collect. I'll have to go back to the shop and ask them to assist.
But on what grounds should I appeal - what'd be your recommendation?
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mummyof3
post Wed, 11 Dec 2019 - 19:25
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Sign location

https://www.google.com/maps/@51.4615905,-0....6384!8i8192

Cake shop I assume

https://www.google.com/maps/@51.4618959,-0....6384!8i8192


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"Stupid is as stupid does" - Forrest Gump
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medigold
post Sat, 14 Dec 2019 - 21:23
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QUOTE (mummyof3 @ Wed, 11 Dec 2019 - 19:25) *


That's correct
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cp8759
post Mon, 16 Dec 2019 - 19:20
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QUOTE (medigold @ Wed, 11 Dec 2019 - 18:17) *
But on what grounds should I appeal - what'd be your recommendation?

If your wife was loading the cake, she was entitled to stop in the loading bay so the alleged contravention did not occur. Did anyone get a photo of the cake?


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I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
No, I am not a lawyer.
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