TFL PCN on red route loading bay in Lee High Road, TFL PCN on red route loading bay in Lee High Road within loading hrs |
TFL PCN on red route loading bay in Lee High Road, TFL PCN on red route loading bay in Lee High Road within loading hrs |
Tue, 10 Dec 2019 - 20:26
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#1
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Member Group: Members Posts: 14 Joined: 13 Jan 2019 Member No.: 101,878 |
Hi All,
Long time not contributing ... Until my wife had a TFL PCN last week in Lee High Road in Lewisham, South London. She stopped in a red route loading bay to pick and load shoping within allowed loading hours (10-4pm) and did not overstayed the 20min limit, but was ticketed by TFL with observing the car for 5 mins in total. The reason for the ticket: "In circumstances giving me reasonable cause to believe that the vehicle was stopped where prohibited (on a red route or clearway)" My wife had too pick heavy load - hence stopping for few minutes on a loading bay. Do we have any grounds to contest? I see it as we can use the bay to load within 20mins, while the warden has observed the vehicle for exactly 5mins befor issuing the ticket... Please see a picture of the signage there and a copy of the ticket. Thank you to all in advance! |
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Tue, 10 Dec 2019 - 20:26
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Tue, 10 Dec 2019 - 20:29
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#2
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Member Group: Members Posts: 23,582 Joined: 12 Feb 2013 From: London Member No.: 59,924 |
You've blanked the date and times - put them back.
Do you have evidence of what was bought and loaded? And what was it? |
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Tue, 10 Dec 2019 - 20:47
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#3
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Member Group: Members Posts: 20,919 Joined: 22 Apr 2012 Member No.: 54,455 |
Sorry to have to say it, but parking-up, going shopping, then "loading" the shopping into the car does't count as a Loading/Unloading activity. Many appeals have been lost on this. On the other hand, the sign permits all vehicles engaged in loading, not just goods vehicles. So tell us a bit more about what went on as SFM suggests; there might be an appeal argument there.
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Tue, 10 Dec 2019 - 20:47
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#4
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Member Group: Members Posts: 14 Joined: 13 Jan 2019 Member No.: 101,878 |
You've blanked the date and times - put them back. Do you have evidence of what was bought and loaded? And what was it? Hey - that was quick - many thanks! Sorry about the date and time - it was 0n 7/12/19 - from 13:42 to 13:47 My wife stopped to pick up large birthday cake from a cake shop about 50m accross... 2-3 mins to walk and few mins waiting for service in the shop... Unfortunatelly my wife did not save the receipt... (only if we knew!).. This post has been edited by medigold: Tue, 10 Dec 2019 - 20:49 |
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Tue, 10 Dec 2019 - 22:40
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#5
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Member Group: Members Posts: 20,919 Joined: 22 Apr 2012 Member No.: 54,455 |
So, a presumably pre-ordered cake (for the decorations, no doubt). Collecting this having been told it was ready for collection would count as loading, I think. If you haven't got the original receipt, then you'll have to get the shop to provide a letter that you order a cake on dd/mm/yy, and collected it on dd/mm/yy. You would then submit this with your representations.
Don't expect TfL to roll over straightaway, they need all the money they can get with their enormous deficit last year, so you might have to take them to London Tribunals, but give it a go anyway. |
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Wed, 11 Dec 2019 - 08:25
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#6
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Member Group: Members Posts: 35,063 Joined: 2 Aug 2008 From: Woking Member No.: 21,551 |
large birthday cake from a cake shop about 50m accross
There are two separate issues: activity undertaken and time taken. Activity The actual size of the cake was? The shop was how far away? When was the cake actually ordered and paid for? (if this was done online, then she will have some record) If she was responding to notice from the shop to collect the cake, then she mist have this on record. Time taken Pl reinstate the dates and times on the PCN and re-post both sides, not just the front. Distance from car to shop? Are you the registered keeper of the car (just in case the contravention was recorded by camera and to check whether there might be a parallel strand of postal PCN to the keeper). |
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Wed, 11 Dec 2019 - 18:00
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#7
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Member Group: Members Posts: 14 Joined: 13 Jan 2019 Member No.: 101,878 |
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Wed, 11 Dec 2019 - 18:17
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#8
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Member Group: Members Posts: 14 Joined: 13 Jan 2019 Member No.: 101,878 |
So, a presumably pre-ordered cake (for the decorations, no doubt). Collecting this having been told it was ready for collection would count as loading, I think. If you haven't got the original receipt, then you'll have to get the shop to provide a letter that you order a cake on dd/mm/yy, and collected it on dd/mm/yy. You would then submit this with your representations. Don't expect TfL to roll over straightaway, they need all the money they can get with their enormous deficit last year, so you might have to take them to London Tribunals, but give it a go anyway. Thank you for the input. Yes, the cake was pre-ordered and ready to collect. I'll have to go back to the shop and ask them to assist. But on what grounds should I appeal - what'd be your recommendation? |
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Wed, 11 Dec 2019 - 19:25
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#9
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Member Group: Members Posts: 151 Joined: 9 May 2019 From: North of somewhere Member No.: 103,782 |
Sign location
https://www.google.com/maps/@51.4615905,-0....6384!8i8192 Cake shop I assume https://www.google.com/maps/@51.4618959,-0....6384!8i8192 -------------------- "Stupid is as stupid does" - Forrest Gump
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Sat, 14 Dec 2019 - 21:23
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#10
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Member Group: Members Posts: 14 Joined: 13 Jan 2019 Member No.: 101,878 |
Sign location https://www.google.com/maps/@51.4615905,-0....6384!8i8192 Cake shop I assume https://www.google.com/maps/@51.4618959,-0....6384!8i8192 That's correct |
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Mon, 16 Dec 2019 - 19:20
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#11
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Member Group: Members Posts: 38,006 Joined: 3 Dec 2010 Member No.: 42,618 |
But on what grounds should I appeal - what'd be your recommendation? If your wife was loading the cake, she was entitled to stop in the loading bay so the alleged contravention did not occur. Did anyone get a photo of the cake? -------------------- If you would like assistance with a penalty charge notice, please post a thread on https://www.ftla.uk/index.php
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Sat, 27 May 2023 - 16:47
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#12
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Member Group: Members Posts: 28 Joined: 19 Jul 2013 Member No.: 63,710 |
Hi, I have just received a PCN at the exact same location for the same reason. Did you manage to appeal and under what grounds? If so, was you successful?
I have an email stating the collection date, and I ordered the largest cake size they have. My car was probably parked for 5 minutes. |
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Sat, 27 May 2023 - 18:28
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#13
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Member Group: Members Posts: 20,919 Joined: 22 Apr 2012 Member No.: 54,455 |
Hi, I have just received a PCN at the exact same location for the same reason. Did you manage to appeal and under what grounds? If so, was you successful? I have an email stating the collection date, and I ordered the largest cake size they have. My car was probably parked for 5 minutes. This thread is 4 years old, so best you start your own thread. Hopefully the OP here will tell you how they got on, but sometimes we never hear from them again. |
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Sun, 28 May 2023 - 15:19
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#14
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Member Group: Members Posts: 1,133 Joined: 25 May 2022 Member No.: 116,704 |
+1 on starting your own thread.
An on street PCN is usually issued by a PCSO---so---does the vehicle have an onboard camera which shows that officer? He/she will usually not be dressed according to the Regs and that is an exploitable ground of appeal. Mick |
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