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FightBack Forums _ Speeding and other Criminal Offences _ [NIP Wizard] Advice please - NIP accuses of going through a red light in Taunton.

Posted by: Science123 Thu, 9 Aug 2018 - 09:42
Post #1406509

NIP Details and Circumstances
What is the name of the Constabulary? -
Date of the offence: - July 2018
Date of the NIP: - 21 days after the offence
Date you received the NIP: - 28 days after the offence
Location of offence (exact location as it appears on the NIP: important): - Chritchard Parkway, jct Wordsworth Drive, Taunton, Taunton Deane, UK
Was the NIP addressed to you? - Yes
Was the NIP sent by first class post, second class or recorded delivery? - First
If your are not the Registered Keeper, what is your relationship to the vehicle? - I have a personal lease on the vehicle
How many current points do you have? - 0
Provide a description of events (if you know what happened) telling us as much about the incident as possible - some things that may seem trivial to you may be important, so don't leave anything out. Please do not post personal details for obvious reasons - The NIP says 'driver allegedly committed the offence of Drive motor vehicle fail comply with red/ green arrow/ lane closure traffic light signals - automatic equipment contrary to section 36(1) of the Road Traffic Act 1988. The red light had been illuminated for 39.2 seconds when the vehicle crossed the white stop line'.

Firstly, I have no recollection of any red light far less going through a red light. Context is that it was 6.05am on a Saturday morning; I had been staying in a hotel in Taunton on way to Cornwall on holiday. I woke early, decided to have a drive around town to have a look and then back for breakfast - so a very relaxed drive with no time pressure, albeit in a town i'd never been in before.

Wider context is that i'm certainly not in the habit of going through red lights. I have been driving for 37 years and other than 2-3 speeding tickets over the decades have had no other incidents.

Any thoughts on how I should respond to the NIP would be appreciated.

Thanks


NIP Wizard Responses
These were the responses used by the Wizard to arrive at its recommendation:
Have you received a NIP? - Yes
Are you the Registered Keeper of the vehicle concerned (is your name and address on the V5/V5C)? - No
Is the NIP addressed to you personally? - Yes
Although you are not the Registered Keeper, were you the keeper of the vehicle concerned (the person normally responsible for it) at the time of the alleged offence? - Yes
Were you driving? - Yes
Which country did the alleged offence take place in? - England

NIP Wizard Recommendation
Based on these responses the Wizard suggested that this course of action should be considered:


Generated by the PePiPoo NIP Wizard v3.3.2: Thu, 09 Aug 2018 09:42:13 +0000

Posted by: 666 Thu, 9 Aug 2018 - 09:47
Post #1406510

Before you reply, you can ask for any photos "to help identify the driver". Don't mention proof or evidence, and they will probably oblige. Bear in mind that asking for these doesn't stop the clock on the deadline to reply.

The photo will probably show your car, together with the red light.

Posted by: Jlc Thu, 9 Aug 2018 - 09:49
Post #1406511

QUOTE (Science123 @ Thu, 9 Aug 2018 - 10:42) *
Any thoughts on how I should respond to the NIP would be appreciated.

No other response than naming the driver is required.

However, you may wish to request a photo to assist in the identification of the driver - on the basis to see a picture to confirm the offence. (Prior to confirming the driver)

But there's little reason to doubt the allegation as RLC's are extremely reliable. The camera is https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.016833,-3.0882973,3a,75y,201.73h,84.75t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s0K9qUbICFMl9rGC_eA6Gmw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

That time in red would indicate that you sailed through without realising rather than any deliberate act but nevertheless it's a strict liability offence. Additionally, that excess can only be dealt with at court.

Posted by: The Rookie Thu, 9 Aug 2018 - 11:05
Post #1406535

Maybe the lights went red/amber and you drove through before they went green....

As above, ask for the photos and see what they show, the light sensors are very reliable, they only issue we have ever seen is where they enforce one lane while another lane is green and the driver wasn’t fully in that lane and triggered the camera despite carrying on in the green direction lawfully.

Posted by: Stoofa Thu, 9 Aug 2018 - 11:44
Post #1406549

Illuminated for 39.2 seconds - wow, that is not a case of the lights just changing as the OP drove through.
As above - possibly jumped the lights?

Posted by: notmeatloaf Thu, 9 Aug 2018 - 13:11
Post #1406589

QUOTE (Stoofa @ Thu, 9 Aug 2018 - 12:44) *
Illuminated for 39.2 seconds - wow, that is not a case of the lights just changing as the OP drove through.
As above - possibly jumped the lights?

Thank you for your insightful observation, which is sure to assist the OP.

Posted by: Science123 Thu, 9 Aug 2018 - 13:18
Post #1406592

Thanks all for getting back to me. Yes that all makes sense, but what's confusing me is why i'd jump a light at 6.05 in the morning on what was probably my most relaxed drive of the last ten years. My suspicion, given that I have no re-collection of an issue on that drive whatsoever, is that I just did not see the light at all; that would be weird but I'd think that is more realistic than jumping a light.

If that's the case, what's my best route forward? Ask for a photo to check the driver and see if the photo reveals anything?

Anything else I should be considering?

Posted by: Jlc Thu, 9 Aug 2018 - 13:25
Post #1406594

Yes, ask for a photo. They don't have to provide one but often do - they are from the rear so will not show the driver anyway, but it's more to confirm the offence. (They will almost certainly show the car moving over the stop line with red illuminated)

The 28 day clock to name the driver does not stop.

Posted by: Science123 Thu, 9 Aug 2018 - 13:31
Post #1406600

OK thanks, yes i'll request a photo.

On the assumption it shows what the NIP shows, any idea what I should expect after that? What's the process I should follow?

Posted by: Jlc Thu, 9 Aug 2018 - 13:34
Post #1406605

After naming the driver they'll either respond that the matter will be going to court or indeed 'nothing'. That is until the court paperwork drops on your mat - which can often take up to 6-7 months... (Which will be Single Justice Procedure)

You should be able to deal with it by way of postal plea. If they are pursuing the matter as a traffic signal offence then it will still be 3 points at court. (I presume the NIP doesn't make reference to careless driving for example?) The fine will be income related (Around 1 week's earnings), along with costs (£85) and surcharge 10% of the fine (min £30).

Posted by: Science123 Thu, 9 Aug 2018 - 13:41
Post #1406616

OK, thanks very much for your help - the outcome will be what it will be I guess, but at least i'm clearer on the process and potential outcomes.

Posted by: Stoofa Thu, 9 Aug 2018 - 14:06
Post #1406626

QUOTE (notmeatloaf @ Thu, 9 Aug 2018 - 14:11) *
QUOTE (Stoofa @ Thu, 9 Aug 2018 - 12:44) *
Illuminated for 39.2 seconds - wow, that is not a case of the lights just changing as the OP drove through.
As above - possibly jumped the lights?

Thank you for your insightful observation, which is sure to assist the OP.


Hay, I was mentioning it as it could have jogged the memory of the OP.
Whereas he cannot remember travelling through a red light, he might have remembered being a little too quick on the accelerator at a red light.

Oh BTW, you might want to check your forum settings - the mod badge appears to have fallen off your profile.

Posted by: Logician Thu, 9 Aug 2018 - 16:30
Post #1406672

QUOTE (Science123 @ Thu, 9 Aug 2018 - 14:41) *
OK, thanks very much for your help - the outcome will be what it will be I guess, but at least i'm clearer on the process and potential outcomes.


Just to warn you, there is a chance that for that time into the red they will go for careless driving rather than the simple traffic signal offence.


Posted by: Jlc Thu, 9 Aug 2018 - 16:52
Post #1406677

Only s36 appears to be mentioned - careless would normally be mentioned if they were considering it.

Posted by: notmeatloaf Thu, 9 Aug 2018 - 17:52
Post #1406700

QUOTE (Stoofa @ Thu, 9 Aug 2018 - 15:06) *
Oh BTW, you might want to check your forum settings - the mod badge appears to have fallen off your profile.

There is no need for badges to tell who is the moderator on this forum.

Posted by: Science123 Thu, 9 Aug 2018 - 22:19
Post #1406803

Noted thanks re the possibility of careless driving. Should I be looking for a lawyer now, or just see how it pans out when I check their photo (assuming the send one) and I respond to that?

Posted by: notmeatloaf Thu, 9 Aug 2018 - 22:25
Post #1406804

There is no point looking for a solicitor now or indeed at all, unless the photos show a defence.

If you plead guilty you can only get three points, and the fine is income related. The whole matter can be dealt with by post if it does go to court.

Posted by: Science123 Fri, 10 Aug 2018 - 20:01
Post #1407037

That's good to know thanks.

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