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Appeal unsuccessful, ParkingEye
balcones
post Thu, 17 Jan 2019 - 15:23
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Park in the same car park every day for over a year and always pay cash at the machine. Its habit I suppose just go to machine and pay each morning, didn't even realise the car park had an ANPR camera until I got the NTK. I display the ticket but throw them away each night when i get home. I appealed on their site without giving the drivers name and asked for the the PDT machine record of payments showing partial VRNs made on that day but they have responded with 'Our records confirm that no parking was purchased on the date of the parking event, despite there being payment methods available on the day in question.' I have no way of knowing if I did pay or not. Are they obliged to provide the information requested or do I have to accept their word that I forgot to pay? They have given me 14 days extra at the reduced amount of £60 to pay else if I appeal to POPLA the amount will rise to the original demand of £100.
I would be grateful for any guidance. Many thanks
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post Thu, 17 Jan 2019 - 15:23
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ostell
post Thu, 17 Jan 2019 - 16:50
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So edit the post so the identity of the driver cannot be inferred. Post up the suitably redacted NTK, but leave dates
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nosferatu1001
post Fri, 18 Jan 2019 - 08:52
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Send them a SAR for all VRM or partial VRM that match yours from that day, plus any other data they hold on you

They ALWAYS reject the first appeal

How many days between date of ievent and date of receipt of the NtK?
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balcones
post Sat, 19 Jan 2019 - 14:17
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Thanks very much for your replies. NTK posted as requested. Not sure dated received it in post probably some time around 7 Dec. Will send in SAR today via their site.
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Jlc
post Sat, 19 Jan 2019 - 14:24
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A SAR only entitles you to your personal information. You cannot 'demand' an extract of their log.

However, they may well need to produce it for a court case.

There are a number of possibilities - you mistyped the vrm, you simply didn't pay or their machine messed up (it does happen). But you could SAR for you records to show regular payments and there was no intention to avoid payment as part of any defence.


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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balcones
post Sat, 19 Jan 2019 - 16:05
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So if I did forget (maybe early morning tiredness) I may not find out until or if it goes the distance. Annoying as I've never missed paying, so its a gamble to fight it and risk losing then paying the full price £100 or settle now at the reduced amount of £60. Grateful for your help and advice
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SchoolRunMum
post Sun, 20 Jan 2019 - 01:25
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As long as you didn't say in your appeal that you are familiar with the car park and 'always pay', then go all out to prove to POPLA that the signs are not lit at night, if that arrival photo is at night/early hours, and as dark as it looks.

Get photos in the dark with no flash, lots of them.

If you've admitted to being familiar with the car park I am struggling to see a case, as you couldn't then say you were not given the opportunity to see the terms in the dark.
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sputnik365
post Sun, 20 Jan 2019 - 10:24
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Wouldn't OP expect to read the terms every time he/she parked there in case they had changed?
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balcones
post Sun, 20 Jan 2019 - 22:14
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Haven't told them anything about car park use in my appeal, it could be the first time I've used the car park as far as they are concerned. I'll get some photos in the morning without a flash. Thanks again
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thevaliant
post Sun, 20 Jan 2019 - 23:54
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A little part of me wonders if you shouldn't run an angle of:

"I've parked here each day for the past year. Reg plate: XX. Please check your records to confirm this.
On the day in question, I believe I did pay and would request you check your records for any unallocated payment with no reg attached to it.

[[If your records find no such payment, and you believe I did not pay, then as a goodwill gesture I offer the original parking charge per day of £X]]

[[If your records find no such payment, I will pay the reduced fee of £60 as I understand you are a highly litiguous firm. I will of course NOT be using this car park again the future]]

Think about which one is best. If you ARE going to threaten them with loss of custom, be prepared to follow it through.

You probably need to decide if appealing as a regular customer is worth it. Let's be honest, them continuing to collect £5 per day (or whatever) for the next few years is worth it over getting £60 one off and nothing in the future. But I'm unsure if their business model operates to normal commercial interests and they can recognise that.
Simply put, in this situation, you ARE a regular customer and them pissing you off really isn't in their interests.

I would also shift to paying via a non-cash method if I could, to avoid this in the future.

I'd wait for better minds to advise. I know a lot on here are rightly "pay the sods nothing" but this is usually because there is no regularity in car parking. It's the usual, "I'm ten minutes over at Aldi" or whatever.

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Jlc
post Mon, 21 Jan 2019 - 08:48
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PE won't care about the loss of custom. They do not collect the tariff but only the parking charges following breaches.

They'd love the OP to pay up.

However, the landholder may be more interested - or whoever actually does collect the tariff.

This post has been edited by Jlc: Mon, 21 Jan 2019 - 08:49


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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thevaliant
post Mon, 21 Jan 2019 - 12:16
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QUOTE (Jlc @ Mon, 21 Jan 2019 - 08:48) *
PE won't care about the loss of custom. They do not collect the tariff but only the parking charges following breaches.

They'd love the OP to pay up.

However, the landholder may be more interested - or whoever actually does collect the tariff.


I appreciate I'm derailing the thread somewhat, but how does this work legally then? In Beavis, it was decided these charges weren't penalties, that was just the charge:
0 to 2 hours - £Nil
Thereafter £100

And the justification was that it was a car park where they DIDN'T want you staying that long.

In this case, neither is true. It appears to be a contract along the lines of:
"We're XYZ Parking Limited and we own/otherwise manage this land. The charge is £5 per day, payable at the machine. However, if you decide NOT to pay at the machine, then the charge is £100 payable to Parking Eye Limited"

Doesn't sound like a great contract to me. Reads a bit like some tripartite lease, with three parties involved?
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