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PPS Screen PCN Issued While Buying Ticket
Mrs Doyle
post Wed, 20 Mar 2019 - 18:26
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Hi all,

Would greatly appreciate some advice on this one. Windscreen PCN issued as driver was purchasing a ticket from the machine. Had not left the car park, but took a couple of minutes to buy the ticket due to asking someone else in the car park if they had change for a 50p coin, as the pay machine did not accept it.

Ticket did not print properly, but was purchased at 16:45. 30 mins parking costs 30p, and 40p was paid, so expiry time of 17:15 confirms purchase at 16:45.

Apparently the gentleman who issued the ticket was very reasonable, and said that 10 mins grace is allowed, and advised the driver to appeal.

Before taking any action, they would like to seek some guidance from you lovely people on the best way to proceed.







Many thanks for any advice.

This post has been edited by Mrs Doyle: Tue, 26 Mar 2019 - 09:56
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post Wed, 20 Mar 2019 - 18:26
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Sheffield Dave
post Wed, 20 Mar 2019 - 19:14
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QUOTE (Mrs Doyle @ Wed, 20 Mar 2019 - 18:26) *
Ticket did not print properly, but was purchased at 16:15. 30 mins parking costs 30p, and 40p was paid, so expiry time of 17:15 confirms purchase at 16:15.

That makes no sense. Did you mean to say that the ticket was purchased at 16:45 ?

Was the ticket bought within 10 minutes of parking?
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emergencychimp
post Wed, 20 Mar 2019 - 19:18
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No time period noted so not PoFA compliant.
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Mrs Doyle
post Wed, 20 Mar 2019 - 19:24
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QUOTE (Sheffield Dave @ Wed, 20 Mar 2019 - 19:14) *
QUOTE (Mrs Doyle @ Wed, 20 Mar 2019 - 18:26) *
Ticket did not print properly, but was purchased at 16:15. 30 mins parking costs 30p, and 40p was paid, so expiry time of 17:15 confirms purchase at 16:15.

That makes no sense. Did you mean to say that the ticket was purchased at 16:45 ?

Was the ticket bought within 10 minutes of parking?


Sorry, my mistake. Yes ticket purchased at 16:45 (have corrected original post). Exact same minute as PCN issued. Yes ticket purchased well within 10 mins of parking.

This post has been edited by Mrs Doyle: Wed, 20 Mar 2019 - 19:25
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Jlc
post Wed, 20 Mar 2019 - 19:35
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QUOTE (emergencychimp @ Wed, 20 Mar 2019 - 19:18) *
No time period noted so not PoFA compliant.

Is that critical in a ‘no ticket’ situation?

QUOTE (Mrs Doyle @ Wed, 20 Mar 2019 - 19:24) *
Sorry, my mistake. Yes ticket purchased at 16:45 (have corrected original post). Exact same minute as PCN issued. Yes ticket purchased well within 10 mins of parking.

Your dilemma is that they will almost certainly reject an appeal on the basis they can and just want your cash.

The further dilemma is whether you want to reveal the driver by appealing the ticket. One option is to appeal as the keeper close to the deadline (say day 26). They won’t access the DVLA and definitely mess up keeper liability.

Whilst you have a totally legitimate point it’s a bit of a game. I can’t remember if they are litigious.


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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Mrs Doyle
post Wed, 20 Mar 2019 - 19:43
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QUOTE (Jlc @ Wed, 20 Mar 2019 - 19:35) *
QUOTE (emergencychimp @ Wed, 20 Mar 2019 - 19:18) *
No time period noted so not PoFA compliant.

Is that critical in a ‘no ticket’ situation?

QUOTE (Mrs Doyle @ Wed, 20 Mar 2019 - 19:24) *
Sorry, my mistake. Yes ticket purchased at 16:45 (have corrected original post). Exact same minute as PCN issued. Yes ticket purchased well within 10 mins of parking.

Your dilemma is that they will almost certainly reject an appeal on the basis they can and just want your cash.

The further dilemma is whether you want to reveal the driver by appealing the ticket. One option is to appeal as the keeper close to the deadline (say day 26). They won’t access the DVLA and definitely mess up keeper liability.

Whilst you have a totally legitimate point it’s a bit of a game. I can’t remember if they are litigious.


Fully understood. Point very much taken on whether to reveal the driver. So keeper appeal online on day 26? Is the 21 days mentioned on the PCN not relevant?

This post has been edited by Mrs Doyle: Wed, 20 Mar 2019 - 20:22
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Redivi
post Wed, 20 Mar 2019 - 21:24
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Whilst you have a totally legitimate point it’s a bit of a game. I can’t remember if they are litigious.

Yes they are

One of the nastier companies that will go to almost any lengths to recover a payment

A close associate of Premier Park with similar habits regarding the provenance of witness statements to independent appeal bodies
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Mrs Doyle
post Wed, 20 Mar 2019 - 22:05
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The driver is also doubtful as to whether the attendant had time to take any pictures of the car. Not 100% sure though.
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Mrs Doyle
post Fri, 22 Mar 2019 - 07:10
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Any further thoughts on the best way to go with this one?

Keeper appeal to screen ticket? Wait for NtK?
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ostell
post Fri, 22 Mar 2019 - 08:30
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Keeper appeal to arrive on day 26 and hopefully no NTK or if they do then they try to save £2.50 by not getting the keeper details from the dvla

The 26 days is to tie in with the requirements of POFA, ie they can't apply for the keeper details before day 28

Use all the reasons given so far. What do the signs say?
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Mrs Doyle
post Fri, 22 Mar 2019 - 08:41
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QUOTE (ostell @ Fri, 22 Mar 2019 - 08:30) *
Keeper appeal to arrive on day 26 and hopefully no NTK or if they do then they try to save £2.50 by not getting the keeper details from the dvla

The 26 days is to tie in with the requirements of POFA, ie they can't apply for the keeper details before day 28

Use all the reasons given so far. What do the signs say?


So it's safe to ignore the 21 days stated on the windscreen PCN relating to appeals?

Will get some pictures of the signs.

Thanks!
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Jlc
post Fri, 22 Mar 2019 - 10:44
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In some ways the main thrust of the case here is a ticket WAS purchased and nothing has breached. So, revealing the driver should be irrelevant.


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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ostell
post Fri, 22 Mar 2019 - 12:50
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QUOTE (Jlc @ Fri, 22 Mar 2019 - 10:44) *
In some ways the main thrust of the case here is a ticket WAS purchased and nothing has breached. So, revealing the driver should be irrelevant.


Agreed, but PPCs are not exactly willing to lose money on such a trifling thing. But keep throwing as much as possible at them until there are other points to kill it

This post has been edited by ostell: Fri, 22 Mar 2019 - 12:51
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Jlc
post Fri, 22 Mar 2019 - 13:10
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QUOTE (ostell @ Fri, 22 Mar 2019 - 12:50) *
QUOTE (Jlc @ Fri, 22 Mar 2019 - 10:44) *
In some ways the main thrust of the case here is a ticket WAS purchased and nothing has breached. So, revealing the driver should be irrelevant.


Agreed, but PPCs are not exactly willing to lose money on such a trifling thing. But keep throwing as much as possible at them until there are other points to kill it

IPC member..


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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Mrs Doyle
post Sun, 24 Mar 2019 - 17:42
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Pics of the signs:





This post has been edited by Mrs Doyle: Sun, 24 Mar 2019 - 17:43
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cabbyman
post Sun, 24 Mar 2019 - 20:59
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QUOTE (Mrs Doyle @ Fri, 22 Mar 2019 - 08:41) *
QUOTE (ostell @ Fri, 22 Mar 2019 - 08:30) *
Keeper appeal to arrive on day 26 and hopefully no NTK or if they do then they try to save £2.50 by not getting the keeper details from the dvla

The 26 days is to tie in with the requirements of POFA, ie they can't apply for the keeper details before day 28

Use all the reasons given so far. What do the signs say?


So it's safe to ignore the 21 days stated on the windscreen PCN relating to appeals?

Will get some pictures of the signs.

Thanks!


Appeal so that it reaches them ON day 19.


--------------------
Cabbyman 11 PPCs 0
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Mrs Doyle
post Mon, 25 Mar 2019 - 09:39
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QUOTE (cabbyman @ Sun, 24 Mar 2019 - 20:59) *
QUOTE (Mrs Doyle @ Fri, 22 Mar 2019 - 08:41) *
QUOTE (ostell @ Fri, 22 Mar 2019 - 08:30) *
Keeper appeal to arrive on day 26 and hopefully no NTK or if they do then they try to save £2.50 by not getting the keeper details from the dvla

The 26 days is to tie in with the requirements of POFA, ie they can't apply for the keeper details before day 28

Use all the reasons given so far. What do the signs say?


So it's safe to ignore the 21 days stated on the windscreen PCN relating to appeals?

Will get some pictures of the signs.

Thanks!


Appeal so that it reaches them ON day 19.


OK, will do! I'm presuming keeper should appeal? Any reason not to do this via their online appeals form?
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Redivi
post Mon, 25 Mar 2019 - 12:25
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If you use the Online, watch out for any defaults that cause you to say that you were driving
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Mrs Doyle
post Fri, 5 Apr 2019 - 16:34
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Quick update on this.

I decided I was confident enough I could probably win this with the first appeal to PPS.

Have just had confirmation that they accepted the appeal, and the PCN has been cancelled.

Thanks for all the advice.

This post has been edited by Mrs Doyle: Fri, 5 Apr 2019 - 16:34
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