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Newham parking ticket
cj2002
post Thu, 21 Jun 2018 - 15:08
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Hi All,
I parked my car last week in newham and received a panalty ticket. The parking sign was fallen off from the pole next to my car. The next sign was a disable bay and after that there was a sign which says parking permit holders only. Most f the signs in this area were vandalised. Any idea wheather i can appeal for this?
Thanks
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post Thu, 21 Jun 2018 - 15:08
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cj2002
post Tue, 17 Jul 2018 - 08:23
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Hi there,
Pictures attached. Please let me know what you think.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/nREy1dcSR7mZP275A

In the video you will see a blue people carrier. I was parked in front of it.
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Mad Mick V
post Tue, 17 Jul 2018 - 08:44
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This is what was on the pole:-

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.5414883,0...3312!8i6656

A case might be made under Reg 18 LATOR 1996 that motorists are confused and misled because the Council has failed in its duty to maintain adequate signage:-

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1996/24...ulation/18/made

Traffic signs

18.—(1) Where an order relating to any road has been made, the order making authority shall take such steps as are necessary to secure—

(a)before the order comes into force, the placing on or near the road of such traffic signs in such positions as the order making authority may consider requisite for securing that adequate information as to the effect of the order is made available to persons using the road;

(b)the maintenance of such signs for so long as the order remains in force; and

©in a case where the order revokes, amends or alters the application of a previous order, the removal or replacement of existing traffic signs as the authority considers requisite to avoid confusion to road users by signs being left in the wrong positions.

Against that, there is a permit sign in the bay in which the OP parked--but whether it is adequate is the moot question.

Mick
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hcandersen
post Tue, 17 Jul 2018 - 14:16
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???

The council shall place traffic signs within or in the vicinity of the parking place....will be the requirement which the TMO places on the council.

And there appears to be a sign in or within the vicinity. That it’s one of two and the other, marginally further away*, is missing is not a defence, IMO.

And it doesn’t mislead, IMO.

Subject to the issue of the authority’s photos, I can’t see any defence on these grounds and would not risk the discount using this argument.

* - if a sign’s not there, then how would a motorist know it’s missing unless they knew what should be there? And if it’s not there, the only way to find a traffic sign is to discover the one which is present, not to walk to a post, decide there’s nothing there (it appears the OP knew this anyway) and then to leave the parking place.

I‘m unclear on the evidence in the form of photos. Do we have a definitive set?
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cj2002
post Tue, 17 Jul 2018 - 14:20
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I posted pictures at the top of this post. Will post the links again
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hcandersen
post Tue, 17 Jul 2018 - 16:07
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The key questions appear to be:

Do the authority’s photos misrepresent the signage in the bay, notwithstandng that there is a relevant traffic sign present?
Does the traffic sign accurately convey the restriction?
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Mad Mick V
post Tue, 17 Jul 2018 - 16:59
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The circumstances of this case relate IMO to the adequacy of the signs not just in this bay but in the adjoining bay (defaced).
A motorist isn't given a clear steer on where he can park and the sign right at the end of a long bay doesn't help.

The reason I uploaded the missing sign is twofold:-

1) To contend that it was placed there for a reason by the Council (see above);

2) If the parking places order specified that bay was subject to event controls then the bay is not properly marked by the small sign presently there.

I agree with hca that such an argument is not robust but that was the rationale.

Mick
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cp8759
post Thu, 19 Jul 2018 - 18:12
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The layout in post 11 suggests there was no visible sign adjecent to the bay where the OP parked and there's a video in the folder that clearly illustrates that. In these circumstances, there is no obligation on the motorist to look in nearby bays and second guess that the same restrictions are meant to apply in the bay where he parked. A motorist cannot rely on signs that are in other bays, as each bay is regulated by it's own sign. As such the alleged contravention did not occur and i would take this all the way.


--------------------
If you would like assistance with a penalty charge notice, please post a thread on https://www.ftla.uk/index.php
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cj2002
post Thu, 19 Jul 2018 - 21:46
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Thanks CP8759, really appreciate it. I was wondering the same. If I am correct the disable bay breaks the parking bay in to two isn't it.

Also how should I word the appeal?
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cp8759
post Fri, 20 Jul 2018 - 18:28
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I would keep this very simple and to the point:

The alleged contravention did not occur. The parking bay in which a contravention is said to have occurred was not subject to any restrictions, as there were no signs governing the use of that bay. The Council rely on a photo of a sign in a different bay, further along the street, but each bay is regulated by it's own sign. Where a sign is missing, it is not for the motorist to second guess which restrictions are in force, it is for the Council to provide substantially compliant signage to convey the restrictions to motorists.


Enclose the diagram and the video of the location.

This post has been edited by cp8759: Fri, 20 Jul 2018 - 18:29


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