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Speeding on lane where speed fluctuates
dan79
post Tue, 6 Mar 2018 - 23:45
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Was apparently driving 39 in a 30, I remember seeing the van and thinking im ok as not that fast, plus the speed limit had been variable I beleive, am I bang to rights or can I appeal anything?

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This post has been edited by dan79: Wed, 7 Mar 2018 - 10:18
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post Tue, 6 Mar 2018 - 23:45
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dan79
post Thu, 22 Mar 2018 - 13:36
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but notmeatloaf is saying I might burn my bridges here as its a combined form , thats why im not sure of it, maybe they will just accept the fixed penalty .
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peterguk
post Thu, 22 Mar 2018 - 13:43
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QUOTE (dan79 @ Thu, 22 Mar 2018 - 13:36) *
but notmeatloaf is saying I might burn my bridges here as its a combined form , thats why im not sure of it, maybe they will just accept the fixed penalty .


Either you accept the CoFP by paying the £100 and sending your DL in for endorsement, or you go to court.

Just fill the form in and get it sent off, else it'll be a separate charge of FtF.


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dan79
post Thu, 22 Mar 2018 - 14:07
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QUOTE (peterguk @ Thu, 22 Mar 2018 - 13:43) *
QUOTE (dan79 @ Thu, 22 Mar 2018 - 13:36) *
but notmeatloaf is saying I might burn my bridges here as its a combined form , thats why im not sure of it, maybe they will just accept the fixed penalty .


Either you accept the CoFP by paying the £100 and sending your DL in for endorsement, or you go to court.

Just fill the form in and get it sent off, else it'll be a separate charge of FtF.



Yea but they were also saying there might be a possibility the fine is wrong as road name doesenr make sense
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The Rookie
post Thu, 22 Mar 2018 - 14:11
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If you don't pay anything its irrelevant isn't it?

Not complying with the requirement to accept CoFP (by paying the fine and surrendering your licence) means no acceptance, whatever else you may write. you seem to be missing that basic point.



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Jlc
post Thu, 22 Mar 2018 - 14:43
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QUOTE (dan79 @ Thu, 22 Mar 2018 - 12:59) *
Can I not just reply with name address on a piece of paper saying the form was damaged it, it is a bit

Damaged or not, you don't have to use their form to satisfy the s172 requirement.

QUOTE (dan79 @ Thu, 22 Mar 2018 - 12:59) *
Surely this route im admitting to it Is there no way legally I could just sent my details back without taking up any of the offers?

Without any specific challenge they'll probably simply respond with a fixed penalty offer.

But there's no formal admission of guilt until you plead guilty at court.

This post has been edited by Jlc: Thu, 22 Mar 2018 - 14:45


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RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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notmeatloaf
post Thu, 22 Mar 2018 - 15:01
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You have to appreciate yours is a fairly unusual situation and so there is no tried and tested way to proceed.

You have not accepted guilt/passed the point of no return until you pay the fine or speed awareness course. So your aim at the moment is to buy a bit of time whilst the council get their brains into gear. As long as you complete the S172 (sections 1 and 3) you cant really go wrong.

The reason for my recommendation is

Use their form - the forms are read by a computer, and everything is automated. It is probably marginally to your advantage not to stick your head above the parapet. A letter will be no more advantageous than secs 1 and 3. Those are the legal requirements.

Request a speed awareness course - because it buys you the most time, 35 days to book the course, then processing, then 28 days for a fixed penalty. Hopefully you won't need it but it depends how easily or not the council and police roll over.

Remember to you this is one offence, to them it is potentially three years of incorrect speeding tickets. Hence why keeping your head down and buying time now mean yours may be sorted for you if/when they cancel all active cases.


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dan79
post Thu, 22 Mar 2018 - 17:48
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OK thanks everyone, Ive done as you've suggested, I was trying to rush and do at work. My only fear was if the road is wrong and I accept the course/fp I then cannot say about the road. But hopefully this is not the case.

Thanks for all the input, lets see what happens
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notmeatloaf
post Thu, 22 Mar 2018 - 21:41
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Once you accept the course or fixed penalty it is indeed almost certainly game over. Which is why you want to buy some time now for (hopefully) the TRO to be proved invalid - but if it isn't, you haven't lost any options from the table.

Best case scenario the council agree the TRO is useless. Police cancel all outstanding tickets including yours.

Second best council agree the TRO is useless. Police have to be dragged kicking and screaming to cancel tickets.

Worst case scenario the council try to say their map is the authoritative one despite "Church Road" seemingly not existing anywhere else. In which case the council and police would need to be dragged kicking and screaming, which isn't impossible.


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My username is notmeatloaf because I'm not made of meat loaf. I hope that clarifies things.
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notmeatloaf
post Fri, 23 Mar 2018 - 10:59
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Just to say things are moving behind the scenes. Initially they tried to claim that the TRO instead referred to a mystery blue star than had appeared on their copy of the TRO.

When I said that wasn't how TROs work they are escalating it.


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My username is notmeatloaf because I'm not made of meat loaf. I hope that clarifies things.
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dan79
post Sat, 24 Mar 2018 - 10:49
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QUOTE (notmeatloaf @ Fri, 23 Mar 2018 - 10:59) *
Just to say things are moving behind the scenes. Initially they tried to claim that the TRO instead referred to a mystery blue star than had appeared on their copy of the TRO.

When I said that wasn't how TROs work they are escalating it.



Sounds good, I'm gonna go to the road end of this week to check all signs etc. Hopefully nothing has changed, wish I could have gone sooner
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dan79
post Thu, 29 Mar 2018 - 12:39
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Is there anything in particular I should consider photographing? Road signs etc? I know thr obvious but anything else as the road name seems inconclusive.

I will be there tonight
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notmeatloaf
post Thu, 29 Mar 2018 - 13:05
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The council are meant to reply within ten days, you could wait for that and save you a journey if you want. If the council concede the map is wrong that is everything you need.

If you want to go you might as well photo the signs if you are there but you really want to photo the unnamed road - do all the junctions along the unnamed stretch of road as shown on maps.

You could knock at one of the properties and ask if they have ever heard of Church Road if you want belt and braces.


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My username is notmeatloaf because I'm not made of meat loaf. I hope that clarifies things.
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dan79
post Mon, 2 Apr 2018 - 12:17
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Didnt need to take pics in the end as this letter arrived I hope it helps others, so I basically got off because they were using the wrong road name is that correct? I do feel a bit bad as I may have been going too fast it seems. Thanks for everyones input maybe they will change in the future.



This post has been edited by dan79: Mon, 2 Apr 2018 - 13:06
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The Rookie
post Mon, 2 Apr 2018 - 13:29
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You got off as the document that set the speed limit was defective, as such the speed limit on that road was still whatever it was before the defective change (presumably 60). That’s based on the information we have available.

This post has been edited by The Rookie: Mon, 2 Apr 2018 - 14:18


--------------------
There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
Rookies 1-0 Kent

Council PCN's
Rookies 1-0 Warwick
Rookies 1-0 Birmingham

PPC PCN's
Rookies 8-0 PPC's
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notmeatloaf
post Mon, 2 Apr 2018 - 21:33
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Best result you could have wished for, zero risk or effort on your part. You are right that because the road name doesn't exist the speed limit doesn't exist any more than if they had referenced it from the moon.

The speed limit, legally, would remain 40mph but it would be somewhat idiotic to enforce at what with the legal mishmash on the ground.

Some would say that it is a technicality but the TRO creates the limit so it is no less important than signs on the ground.

Just goes to show, I would have put money on the TRO being correct with it dating from 2015 but you can never take anything for granted!

This post has been edited by notmeatloaf: Mon, 2 Apr 2018 - 21:46


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dan79
post Wed, 4 Apr 2018 - 16:24
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Ok great, thanks again for all your help everyone
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