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Parking Eye PCN query
orange86
post Wed, 14 Nov 2018 - 20:06
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Hi, the driver stayed overnight at Premier Inn Leicester, however when they got there they parked in the wrong underground car park (St Georges's Tower).
A check-in into the hotel and registered the car number plate onto their screen, a few hours later the driver is informed that they have parked in the wrong car park so end up moving the car to the premier inn car park (a side car park to where originally parked and underneath premier inn).

as the registered keeper i received a £100 PCN from Parking Eye, £60 if i pay within 14 days.

Can i appeal to Parking Eye and say the driver was staying at Premier Inn (provide the booking details), explaining what happened or is there another appeal i can take?

This post has been edited by orange86: Fri, 16 Nov 2018 - 19:42
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post Wed, 14 Nov 2018 - 20:06
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Jlc
post Wed, 14 Nov 2018 - 20:35
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QUOTE (orange86 @ Wed, 14 Nov 2018 - 20:06) *
Can i appeal to Parking Eye and say i was staying at Premier Inn (provide my booking details), explaining what happened or is there another appeal i can take?

Of course, but do you think they'll accept that appeal? (Clue, they're in it for the money)

Did the PCN arrive within 14 days?


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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orange86
post Wed, 14 Nov 2018 - 20:48
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Hi, yes the PCN came within 14 days of the incident.
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Jlc
post Wed, 14 Nov 2018 - 20:53
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What is the alleged crime? (Looks like Premier Inn have nothing to do with that car park?)


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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SchoolRunMum
post Wed, 14 Nov 2018 - 21:05
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And is this a Golden Ticket?

That's a parking forum phrase for one from ParkingEye that arrives after day 15, or has NOTHING on the back about the POFA 2012/ the registered keeper being liable after day 28/29. Does it have that para on the back, yes or no?

This post has been edited by SchoolRunMum: Wed, 14 Nov 2018 - 21:05
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orange86
post Wed, 14 Nov 2018 - 21:21
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QUOTE (Jlc @ Wed, 14 Nov 2018 - 20:53) *
What is the alleged crime? (Looks like Premier Inn have nothing to do with that car park?)



Hi, i've attached the back of the Parking Eye PCN.
basically parked in private car park which iwas assumed was Premier Inn's but it wasn't.

i called Premier Inn, the guy said lots of customers call up about this and he said to appeal to Parking Eye.

the incident happened on the 3rd Nov and the letter came today 14th, so within the 14 day period.

This post has been edited by orange86: Fri, 16 Nov 2018 - 19:43
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SchoolRunMum
post Wed, 14 Nov 2018 - 21:50
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What made you think it was Premier Inn's car park, were the entrance signs unclear?
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orange86
post Wed, 14 Nov 2018 - 22:48
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It was a little confusing, i went down the tunnel and took a left and assumed it was the car park, (should have correctly driven straight on instead of taking a left).
I walked to the back of the car park and up a flight of steps to Premier Inn reception where i checked in and entered my car reg into their system.

I assumed it was all fine until i spoke to my mate when he drove to the the correct car park a few hours later, it was at that point i moved my car along to the right car park.
At the back of this car park was a lift to the Premier Inn hotel.

Both car parks are situated underneath buildings on top, which include Premier Inn, a gym and some businesses.

This post has been edited by orange86: Wed, 14 Nov 2018 - 22:50
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SchoolRunMum
post Wed, 14 Nov 2018 - 22:54
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What did the signs say, did you read them? Can you get photos?

This sounds like a difficult one and Premier Inn are terrible about handling complaints re parking firms even when it IS their land, and would be no help if it's not. Also sounds like an absolute cash cow for ParkingEye, what an outrageous scam the entire industry is.

You can try an appeal about lack of clear signs and lack of landowner authority at POPLA stage, especially if you can get photos on site, or a video showing how unclear it is, and you could win at POPLA on either of those 2 usual appeal points...but you might not, and if so then the charge would be £100 and they might sue. Decide whether to fight.
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orange86
post Thu, 15 Nov 2018 - 18:37
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at the entrance of the underground tunnel, there is a sign for pure gym and premier in pointing towards the underground road.
i called premier inn and they said inside the tunnel it's labelled to say go straight ahead for Premier inn, however i turned left and parked at hastings direct car park.

for a small mistake i'm being penalised by £60 which is excessive in my eyes, i'll probably now just pay the £60 to avoid the £100, i doubt my claim will hold up.
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SchoolRunMum
post Thu, 15 Nov 2018 - 19:03
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Or appeal it and then appeal to POPLA, using the usual template POPLA appeals seen on here and MSE and hope that PE don't bother to contest it (Christmas getting in the way will help).

And then if you win, great, and if you lose at POPLA, then wait for the LBC and then send PE an email offering to settle out of court at that stage, for say, £40 and they'll probably settle then for £60 in our experience.

This post has been edited by SchoolRunMum: Thu, 15 Nov 2018 - 19:03
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orange86
post Thu, 15 Nov 2018 - 20:23
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just checked MSE forum, saw this text below. you think it's suitable for my case?

Template appeal for BPA or IPC members - copy this wording into the online appeal box:

Re PCN number:

I dispute your 'parking charge', as the keeper of the vehicle. I deny any liability or contractual agreement. There will be no admissions as to who was driving and no assumptions can be drawn.

Since your PCN is a vague template, I require all photos taken, a clear image of the signage and an explanation of the allegation (e.g. if you have identified a wrong VRN input at a machine, say so, and explain why your Data Protection Officer has not simply rectified it, rather than trying to punish a driver for a matter where there is nothing to deter).

I will be making a formal complaint about your predatory conduct to your client landowner and to my MP, appraising all parties of the debate where Parliament agreed: ''we need to crack down on these rogue companies. They are an absolute disgrace to this country. Ordinary motorists...should not have to put up with this''. Firms of your ilk were unanimously condemned as operating an 'outrageous scam' (Hansard 2.2.18). The BPA & IPC were heavily criticised; hardly surprising for an industry where so-called AOS members admit to letting victims 'futilely go through the motions' of appeal and that 'we make it up most of the time' (BBC Watchdog).

Formal note:
Should you later pursue this charge by way of litigation, note that service of any legal documents by email is expressly disallowed and you are not entitled to assume that the data in this dispute/appeal remains the current address for service.
Yours faithfully,


THE NAME AND POSTAL ADDRESS OF THE KEEPER (OR THE HIRER/LESSEE) GOES HERE. THE DRIVER IS NOT IDENTIFIED.


This post has been edited by orange86: Thu, 15 Nov 2018 - 20:24
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SchoolRunMum
post Thu, 15 Nov 2018 - 20:27
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Yes, I wrote it!
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orange86
post Thu, 22 Nov 2018 - 17:46
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Hi, i appealed on the weekend, sunday 16th nov. how long will they take to get back to me?
will they send a letter or email me?
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orange86
post Mon, 3 Dec 2018 - 21:08
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Hi, as expected PE declined my appeal.

I'm now looking to send the below to popla, can someone have a read for me please?


Parking Eye - Parking Charge Notice Reminder
Reference No: xxxx/xxxxx
Vehicle No: xxxxxx

A parking charge notice reminder was issued on 10 November 2018 to the keeper for the vehicle of xxxxxxx, for allegedly un-authorised parking at St George’s Tower, Leicester.

As the registered keeper I wish to refute these charges and this fine be cancelled, on the following grounds:

1. The signs in this car park are not prominent, clear or legible from all parking spaces or at the entrance
2. No evidence of Landowner Authority


1. The signs in this car park are not prominent, clear or legible from all parking spaces or at the entrance

In addition, the signs at St George’s Tower car park are not prominent, clear or legible from the point of entering the underground tunnel. The signs were contradictory and crowded with different terms, so this is not an example of ‘plain intelligible language’, contrary to the Consumer Rights Act 2015:

68 Requirement for transparency (1) A trader must ensure that a written term of a consumer contract, or a consumer notice in writing, is transparent. (2) A consumer notice is transparent for the purposes of subsection (1) if it is expressed in plain and intelligible language and it is legible.

The signs are sporadically placed, indeed obscured and hidden in some areas. They are unremarkable, not immediately obvious as parking terms and the wording is mostly illegible, being crowded and cluttered with a lack of white space as a background. It is indisputable that placing letters too close together in order to fit more information into a smaller space can drastically reduce the legibility of a sign, especially one which must be read BEFORE the action of parking and leaving the car. I put the operator to strict proof as to the size of the wording on their signs and the size of lettering for the most onerous term, the parking charge itself.


2. No evidence of Landowner Authority

As ParkingEye Ltd does not have proprietary interest in the land then I require that they produce an unrelated copy ofthe contract with the landowner. I have not seen any evidence that Parking Eye has any right to issue parking charge notice.

The contract and any 'site agreement' or 'User Manual' setting out details including exemptions - such as any 'genuine customer' or 'genuine resident' exemptions or any site occupier's 'right of veto' charge cancellation rights - is key evidence to define what ParkingEye is authorised to do and any circumstances where the landowner/firms on site in fact have a right to cancellation of a charge. It cannot be assumed, just because an agent is contracted to merely put some signs up and issue Parking Charge Notices, that the agent is also authorised to make contracts with all or any category of visiting drivers and/or to enforce the charge in court in their own name (legal action regarding land use disputes generally being a matter for a landowner only).

Witness statements are not sound evidence of the above, often being pre-signed, generic documents not even identifying the case in hand or even the site rules. A witness statement might in some cases be accepted by POPLAbut in this case I suggest it is unlikely to sufficiently evidence the definition of the services provided by each party to the agreement.

Nor would it define vital information such as charging days/times, any exemption clauses, grace periods (which I believe may be longer than the bare minimum times set out in the BPA CoP) and basic information such as the land boundary and bays where enforcement applies/does not apply. Not forgetting evidence of the various restrictions which the landowner has authorised can give rise to a charge and of course, how much the landowner authorises this agent to charge (which cannot be assumed to be the sum in small print on a sign because template private parking terms and sums have been known not to match the actual landowner agreement).

Paragraph 7 of the BPA CoP defines the mandatory requirements and I put this operator to strict proof of full compliance:

7.2 If the operator wishes to take legal action on any outstanding parking charges, they must ensure that they have the written authority of the landowner (or their appointed agent) prior to legal action being taken.

7.3 The written authorisation must also set out:

a) The definition of the land on which you may operate, so that the boundaries of the land can be clearly defined

b) Any conditions or restrictions on parking control and enforcement operations, including any restrictions on hours ofoperation

c) Any conditions or restrictions on the types of vehicles that may, or may not, be subject to parking control and enforcement

d) Who has the responsibility for putting up and maintaining signs

e) The definition of the services provided by each party to the agreement

Parking Eye have not demonstrated that they had authority to issue parking notices for this site on the date that the PCN was given, and they have not provided a copy of the contract which would allow me to determine my liability and/or to request cancellation of the charge. Parking Eye have not provided me with a copy of the contract with the landowner or on site businesses, as required under the Consumer Contracts (Information, Cancellation and Additional Charges) Regulations 2013.


I would like you to consider sympathetically and thoroughly looking at the all the above points.

Thank you.
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shoosta66
post Wed, 19 Jun 2019 - 10:52
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Hi, what was the outcome of the parking fine at the Premier Inn Leicester please?
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