PCN from Wandsworth council, invalid? Options

[GTV3litre]

Hi there, I received a PCN from Wandsworth council for an alleged left turn into Withycombe Rd SW18 from Wimbeldon Parkside, however the photos received and video on line show me turning left from the Tibbets Corner roundabout onto Parkside legally, not the alleged offence the PCN is issued for.

I sent 'representations' against it stating I dont know what offence Im supposed to have committed and please send me images of the actual offence. Today I received a rejection letter which ignored my request for such images/video and simply states again what offence they allege has been committed

My question is , if there is no photographic or video evidence then am I liable to pay the fine? I cant see how I am but maybe I'm missing something?! Are they rejecting my 'representations' against it hoping that I'll just pay up? They also included a 'right to appeal' form attached. Is my next step to send this off? Or should I approach the council again?

Ive seen on the forum that someone else has posted regards the same offence but he received clear frontal images from a camera on Withycombe Rd of the offence committed:

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=128672

link to images of letters received and photos of offence attached.

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1oXg...WG6?usp=sharing


Any advice greatly appreciated. thanks.

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[Incandescent]

Their letter says it is a timed restriction 07.00-10.00 Mon-Fri. Assuming yours is the Alfa-Romeo you are photographed turning left off Wimbeldon Park Side. The restriction signs are shown here on Google Street View: -

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.4475211,-...33;8i3840?hl=en

Of course the photos don't actually show you passing the sign and turning left, so you could go to London Tribunals on that basis. The council are bound to include photos of the signs in their evidence. Some adjudicators will accept that the evidence must show the actual contravention, which here it clearly doesn't, but some are prepared to accept council photos. The video is the sole evidence, BTW. I presume the photos you have included are theirs, yet you say they haven't supplied any.

If you go to London Tribunals the full penalty of £130 is in play, not the discount.

As per the norm for this forum, please post the PCN all sides with address and car details blanked out. It may contain fatal errors

[stamfordman]

isn't this the location - part time no left that is very clearly signed?

https://www.google.com/maps/@51.447608,-0.2...7680!8i3840

[GTV3litre]

Their letter says it is a timed restriction 07.00-10.00 Mon-Fri. Assuming yours is the Alfa-Romeo you are photographed turning left off Wimbeldon Park Side. The restriction signs are shown here on Google Street View: -

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.4475211,-...33;8i3840?hl=en

Of course the photos don't actually show you passing the sign and turning left, so you could go to London Tribunals on that basis. The council are bound to include photos of the signs in their evidence. Some adjudicators will accept that the evidence must show the actual contravention, which here it clearly doesn't, but some are prepared to accept council photos. The video is the sole evidence, BTW. I presume the photos you have included are theirs, yet you say they haven't supplied any.

If you go to London Tribunals the full penalty of £130 is in play, not the discount.

As per the norm for this forum, please post the PCN all sides with address and car details blanked out. It may contain fatal errors

thanks for the reply. Photos & video Ive provided are theirs. I asked them to additionally provide photos/video of the actual offence, which they havent. I'm surprised I can be fined for an offence without providing any evidence of me actually committing it. It's their word against mine? As a comparison, if I was travelling along the a3 at 100mph, stopped by the police and issued a ticket despite him having not seen me commit the offence, not triggered a speed camera etc ie no evidence it wouldnt happen?!


PCN...I'll post when I get home tonight.

[stamfordman]

The video and pics show you turning left during the restricted time so not sure what you mean by lack of evidence. This is not a criminal offence and the council would provide an evidence pack to the adjudicator showing the signage in place.

[GTV3litre]

The video and pics show you turning left during the restricted time so not sure what you mean by lack of evidence. This is not a criminal offence and the council would provide an evidence pack to the adjudicator showing the signage in place.

They show me turning left off Tibbetts Corner onto Parkway (not an offence). Not turning left from Parkway onto Withycombe Rd (an offence, sign posted as no left turn) for which I have received the PCN. see map.......




This post has been edited by GTV3litre: Wed, 19 Feb 2020 - 12:27

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[stamfordman]

The video and pics look exactly like the banned turn to me.

[Neil B]

They show me turning left off Tibbetts Corner onto Parkway (not an offence).

No they don't.

[Incandescent]

Er, no, the video shows you turning left into here when prohibited.

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.4473934,-...33;8i8192?hl=en

They show me turning left off Tibbetts Corner onto Parkway (not an offence).

So show the photo of you turning here then. So far you have posted a video of you turning left into Withcombe Road, and some photos, (presumably taken from the video), showing your Alfa Romeo in the turn manoevre. I think you have got this wrong, frankly, and are bang-to-rights.

This post has been edited by Incandescent: Wed, 19 Feb 2020 - 12:53

[Neil B]

On a % scale, how likely do you think it is that the council have placed an enforcement camera at a location
where there is no restriction?
Sorry to be frank but you can carry on kidding yourself or pay £65.

[hcandersen]

The photos show your car in Withycombe at the time alleged.

The PCN states you turned into Withycombe.

The video shows you turning into the road from Parkside (Parkside leads directly off Tibbett's Corner roundabout).

The adj would have library photos of the restriction sign or just look for himself on GSV.

You have no defence against the contravention. (and I note that at no time have you denied turning into Withycombe!).

These are the objective facts IMO. If you disagree, pl point out where the error(s) lie.

But I need to see your 'representations received on 24/01/2020'.

You said: I sent 'representations' against it stating I dont know what offence Im supposed to have committed and please send me images of the actual offence. Today I received a rejection letter which ignored my request for such images/video and simply states again what offence they allege has been committed.

But the letter had clear photos attached. In any event, a request for photos is not reps.

I want to see whether notwithstanding your use of the term 'representations' they should have been considered as such.