PePiPoo Helping the motorist get justice Support health workers

Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

Overtaking stationary vehicles on double white lines
andy_foster
post Sat, 30 Nov 2019 - 17:12
Post #1


Member
Group Icon

Group: Life Member
Posts: 24,219
Joined: 9 Sep 2004
From: Reading
Member No.: 1,624



I recently discovered that the IAM's view on the law regarding being on the wrong side of double white lines with a solid line on the left when passing stationary vehicles is that the exemption only applies if the vehicle being passed has come to the end of its journey, as opposed to merely being stuck in a queue of traffic. This is based on advice from IIRC the Met Police's Solicitors, and is understood to be based on some as yet undisclosed case law.

Other than the relatively specific issues of a friend of mine feeling that he had to leave our local IAM group after a heated disagreement on this point (and others), and IAM test candidates being failed for being on the wrong side of double white lines in order to pass what any rational person would describe as a stationary vehicle (on account of it being stationary at the time), this is potentially a serious issue (albeit technically hypothetical unless somebody is prosecuted). Anyone (other than the IAM and the Met Police's solicitors) aware of any such case law?

edit: And yes, the obvious person to ask would be the person claiming that it was illegal, but his authority was simply a redacted email from the IAM stating that the Met Police said so. Not expecting to get much more sense out of the IAM.

This post has been edited by andy_foster: Sat, 30 Nov 2019 - 17:15


--------------------
Andy

Some people think that I make them feel stupid. To be fair, they deserve most of the credit.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
2 Pages V  < 1 2  
Start new topic
Replies (20 - 25)
Advertisement
post Sat, 30 Nov 2019 - 17:12
Post #


Advertise here!









Go to the top of the page
 
Quote Post
Diveray
post Tue, 2 Jan 2024 - 20:44
Post #21


New Member


Group: Members
Posts: 3
Joined: 2 Jan 2024
Member No.: 121,904



Hi, I've been researching this very subject and found this site and specific thread thanks to Google.

My argument refers to filtering on a motorcycle.

The law states that it is legal to cross or straddle a solid white line in order to pass a stationary vehicle if it is safe and necessary to do so.

The issue all boils down to the legal definition of a "stationary vehicle" nothing else, if it's legal to do it, we don't need a reason regarding is it necessary, the point made by "necessary to do so", can be seen as " in order to pass the stationary vehicle it was necessary to cross or straddle the solid white line." Otherwise I'd have squeezed past without crossing it.

There are many opinions of what defines stationary, the only one laid down in case law, is the Haddon Cave definition in Brooks V Blackpool Borough Council, in which basically he said "if it's not moving, it is stationary", he also dismissed the existential view about being on a journey.

I have spoken to 3 motoring lawyers and non of them had heard of the Haddon Cave ruling. One said, it's blatantly obvious what "stationary" means, so there is no need for discussion, no one will argue, stationary means not moving.

Number 2 said " I think they have to be parked ? I spent 10 mins explaining, he said he wasn't aware of it and he'd get back to me...That didn't happen.

The third and silliest one, bearing in mind this is supposed to be a top motoring specialist, hadn't heard of the Haddon Cave, so he said he'd have a look and he did call me back.
His points were,
The Haddon Cave ruling was a civil case and not a criminal case, so wasn't applicable in a criminal court. I asked him, how then did it overturn a criminal conviction? and does that have any effect on the definition from a civil case being used in criminal proceedings.

He then stated that "the law says " Stationary vehicle ", ie singular. I asked him that the exemption in order to "pass a cyclist" prohibits passing 2 cyclists?

He then tried to say that they had to be parked. I referred him to the Highway Code, which he'd been quoting throughout the conversation and he often mentioned that the
Highway Code was considered by Magistrates in Criminal Driving Offences,

Page 7 Rule H3 refers to "Stationary and slow moving traffic"......

Page 12 Rule 14 refers to parked vehicles, so there must be a difference or they would use the same word for both Rules.

The one that really had him blowing and blustering was RULE 163 page 63....."Cyclists may pass slower moving or stationary traffic on their right or left" forget that it refers to cyclists, pay attention to the description of what is being passed, " Slower moving or Stationary", The second time it had described the difference between moving and not moving.

I've also looked through many editions of Motorcycling Roadcraft, and other advanced riding publications, the only one to mention "Not Crossing the White Line" is the IAM.

I've now asked the CPS for their definition of "stationary traffic".... will update when they reply.



Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
666
post Wed, 3 Jan 2024 - 17:13
Post #22


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 3,312
Joined: 17 Jun 2011
Member No.: 47,602



QUOTE (Diveray @ Tue, 2 Jan 2024 - 20:44) *
Hi, I've been researching this very subject and found this site and specific thread thanks to Google.

My argument refers to filtering on a motorcycle.

The law states that it is legal to cross or straddle a solid white line in order to pass a stationary vehicle if it is safe and necessary to do so.

Actually, it doesn't. That's what the Highway Code says, but the law is considerably more prescriptive, i.e. every vehicle "shall be so driven as to keep the first-mentioned continuous line (the LH line) on the right hand or off side of the vehicle", with the various exceptions as discussed.

I take that to mean that no part of your vehicle can touch or overhang the line, let alone cross it.

Is there any case law?
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Diveray
post Wed, 3 Jan 2024 - 17:45
Post #23


New Member


Group: Members
Posts: 3
Joined: 2 Jan 2024
Member No.: 121,904



QUOTE (666 @ Wed, 3 Jan 2024 - 17:13) *
QUOTE (Diveray @ Tue, 2 Jan 2024 - 20:44) *
Hi, I've been researching this very subject and found this site and specific thread thanks to Google.

My argument refers to filtering on a motorcycle.

The law states that it is legal to cross or straddle a solid white line in order to pass a stationary vehicle if it is safe and necessary to do so.

Actually, it doesn't. That's what the Highway Code says, but the law is considerably more prescriptive, i.e. every vehicle "shall be so driven as to keep the first-mentioned continuous line (the LH line) on the right hand or off side of the vehicle", with the various exceptions as discussed.

I take that to mean that no part of your vehicle can touch or overhang the line, let alone cross it.

Is there any case law?


Nope, that's what the Law says, see The Traffic Signs Regulations and general Directions 2016, Schedule 9, Part 9, Paragraph 5.



QUOTE (666 @ Wed, 3 Jan 2024 - 17:13) *
QUOTE (Diveray @ Tue, 2 Jan 2024 - 20:44) *
Hi, I've been researching this very subject and found this site and specific thread thanks to Google.

My argument refers to filtering on a motorcycle.

The law states that it is legal to cross or straddle a solid white line in order to pass a stationary vehicle if it is safe and necessary to do so.

Actually, it doesn't. That's what the Highway Code says, but the law is considerably more prescriptive, i.e. every vehicle "shall be so driven as to keep the first-mentioned continuous line (the LH line) on the right hand or off side of the vehicle", with the various exceptions as discussed.

I take that to mean that no part of your vehicle can touch or overhang the line, let alone cross it.

Is there any case law?



Nope, that's what the Law says, see The Traffic Signs Regulations and general Directions 2016, Schedule 9, Part 7, Paragraph 9.

This post has been edited by Diveray: Wed, 3 Jan 2024 - 17:48
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
southpaw82
post Wed, 3 Jan 2024 - 18:41
Post #24


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 33,634
Joined: 2 Apr 2008
From: Not in the UK
Member No.: 18,483



The law says both. The “cross or straddle” is part of the exemptions, not the prohibition itself.


--------------------
Moderator

Any comments made do not constitute legal advice and should not be relied upon. No lawyer/client relationship should be assumed nor should any duty of care be owed.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Diveray
post Thu, 4 Jan 2024 - 19:01
Post #25


New Member


Group: Members
Posts: 3
Joined: 2 Jan 2024
Member No.: 121,904



So as an exemption, it's no longer prohibited is it ?
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
southpaw82
post Thu, 4 Jan 2024 - 20:48
Post #26


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 33,634
Joined: 2 Apr 2008
From: Not in the UK
Member No.: 18,483



QUOTE (Diveray @ Thu, 4 Jan 2024 - 19:01) *
So as an exemption, it's no longer prohibited is it ?

Are you asking me or telling me?

You asserted that the law doesn’t say that - except it literally does.

This post has been edited by southpaw82: Thu, 4 Jan 2024 - 20:49


--------------------
Moderator

Any comments made do not constitute legal advice and should not be relied upon. No lawyer/client relationship should be assumed nor should any duty of care be owed.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post

2 Pages V  < 1 2
Reply to this topicStart new topic
1 User(s) are reading this topic (1 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members:

 



Advertisement

Advertise here!

RSS Lo-Fi Version Time is now: Saturday, 13th April 2024 - 04:09
Pepipoo uses cookies. You can find details of the cookies we use here along with links to information on how to manage them.
Please click the button to accept our cookies and hide this message. We’ll also assume that you’re happy to accept them if you continue to use the site.
IPS Driver Error

IPS Driver Error

There appears to be an error with the database.
You can try to refresh the page by clicking here