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Private Parking - wrong area code -ticket, The 2 car parks were right next to each other
sw_19
post Wed, 7 Nov 2018 - 14:48
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Hi,

I was advised to post my case here to receive some advice.

I parked my car, pay machine was wrapped in a black bag, was told my someone that there was another pay machine in the next car park, went there and it was also not in use. The 2 car parks were right next to each other. I did not realise they were 2 different car parks, because of how close they were - I assumed it was the same area, both are owned by Excel.

So I paid by phone, using the area code of the second car park, and received a text confirming payment. I then went about my day and came back to a parking ticket. Appealed by sending a copy of the text to the Excel Parking appeal system via the website, which they rejected, claiming I had entered the wrong area code. Their letter directed me to either pay or appeal vis the IAS - I am choosing to appeal via the IAS, as I'm not paying £60 for the fine, which will now be £100.

Conveniently, I revisited the car park to gather pictures and 2/3 months later and both machines are still not in use, seems like it's a trick, as more mistakes are likely to be made paying over the phone.

I have 2 days left to appeal to the IAS.

I have pictures of the signs in both car parks, it states nothing about area codes. I also have pictures showing how close the 2 car parks were.

Is there anything I'm missing?

From what I've seen online, seems like there's no chance with the IAS, but I thought they were supposed to be independent organisation.

Can't afford a £100 fine at the moment.

(note: I've tried uploading an image of the sign but won't work.)

This post has been edited by sw_19: Fri, 9 Nov 2018 - 21:42
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post Wed, 7 Nov 2018 - 14:48
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ostell
post Wed, 7 Nov 2018 - 14:56
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Do not appeal to the IAS, you will lose. The people running the IAS are the same solicitors that run the IPC and handle most of the legal work for IPC companies. When the links became apparent there was lots of resignations of directors from the various companies involved to obfuscate the true identity. They acted as though they independent just long enough to be approved as an ADR then reverted to what the IPC wanted.

Do both the signs say Excel? Yep the machines remin covered as they have discovered, as you surmised, that their income has increased because of this.
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sw_19
post Wed, 7 Nov 2018 - 15:00
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QUOTE (ostell @ Wed, 7 Nov 2018 - 14:56) *
Do not appeal to the IAS, you will lose. The people running the IAS are the same solicitors that run the IPC and handle most of the legal work for IPC companies. When the links became apparent there was lots of resignations of directors from the various companies involved to obfuscate the true identity. They acted as though they independent just long enough to be approved as an ADR then reverted to what the IPC wanted.

Do both the signs say Excel? Yep the machines remin covered as they have discovered, as you surmised, that their income has increased because of this.


Yes both signs say Excel parking. But neither mention a charge will be issued due to incorrect area code.

If I don't appeal via the IAS, what should I do? I don't want debt collectors to come knocking. :/

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Jlc
post Wed, 7 Nov 2018 - 15:24
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No one will be knocking.

You either pay (we don't generally advise that here) or wait and see if they issue a court claim, which is quite likely as it will enter the robo-claim queue.


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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ManxRed
post Wed, 7 Nov 2018 - 15:32
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And there's a fair chance that the claim will be raised by a company called VCS Ltd, and while this is a sister company of Excel, it isn't Excel and this hands you a pretty solid defence point.


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Sometimes I use big words I don't understand in an effort to make myself sound more photosynthesis.
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sw_19
post Wed, 7 Nov 2018 - 15:43
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Well I certainly will not be paying, I'll go to court if I have to.

However, is it ever worth appealing to the IAS in a bid to sort of scare the other party away (Excel), to kind of show I have strong evidence or a strong case, to put them off taking me to court?

Thank you for all the help, it is truly appreciated.
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Jlc
post Wed, 7 Nov 2018 - 16:37
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QUOTE (sw_19 @ Wed, 7 Nov 2018 - 15:43) *
... in a bid to sort of scare the other party away (Excel)

Did you read post #2?

QUOTE (sw_19 @ Wed, 7 Nov 2018 - 15:43) *
...to kind of show I have strong evidence or a strong case

Was the tariff the same in both car parks do you know? (It's also possible the 2 pieces of land have different owners)

This post has been edited by Jlc: Wed, 7 Nov 2018 - 16:38


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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sw_19
post Wed, 7 Nov 2018 - 16:45
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QUOTE (Jlc @ Wed, 7 Nov 2018 - 16:37) *
QUOTE (sw_19 @ Wed, 7 Nov 2018 - 15:43) *
... in a bid to sort of scare the other party away (Excel)

Did you read post #2?

QUOTE (sw_19 @ Wed, 7 Nov 2018 - 15:43) *
...to kind of show I have strong evidence or a strong case

Was the tariff the same in both car parks do you know? (It's also possible the 2 pieces of land have different owners)


It was indeed the same tariffs. Both car parks had the exact same signs, same logo's, same format.
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DBC
post Wed, 7 Nov 2018 - 16:46
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To add to the above, I doubt very much if Excel "own" these car parks. They usually are hired by the actual landowner to supervise the parking. So it could be that there are two different owners of the two car parks.
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ManxRed
post Wed, 7 Nov 2018 - 16:50
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You won't scare Excel by appealing to the IAS. They're members of the IPC and use the same firm of solicitors that run both the IPC and IAS to pursue their claims.

They're effectively best mates.


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Sometimes I use big words I don't understand in an effort to make myself sound more photosynthesis.
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Jlc
post Wed, 7 Nov 2018 - 17:38
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Excel won’t be collecting the tariff themselves - this is routed to the landowner via the location code.

So the wrong location code means the wrong landowner will be paid.

Excel should have permission from the landowners to operate their scheme - that is charging £100 for people not following the ‘rules’. As this is how they make their income they won’t give up easily.


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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sw_19
post Wed, 7 Nov 2018 - 20:03
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Interesting.

Bloody awful way to make money.

So I guess I just have to sit back, ignore everything, and wait until I get called to court?

Thank you again for all the help.
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nosferatu1001
post Thu, 8 Nov 2018 - 09:44
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You dont ignore EVERYTHING

You ignore all edbt collector drivel
You dont ignore a letter before action 9 one saying they WILL take you to court - Or a court claim form. The claim form, if it iarrives, will be a crappy photocopy and will not look genuine

If you move, you MUST tell Excel your new ADDRESS FOR SERVICE using that precise term. Get proof you sent it - either email or letter. if letter, proof of posting from a post office, first class.
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sw_19
post Thu, 8 Nov 2018 - 13:38
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QUOTE (nosferatu1001 @ Thu, 8 Nov 2018 - 09:44) *
You dont ignore EVERYTHING

You ignore all edbt collector drivel
You dont ignore a letter before action 9 one saying they WILL take you to court - Or a court claim form. The claim form, if it iarrives, will be a crappy photocopy and will not look genuine

If you move, you MUST tell Excel your new ADDRESS FOR SERVICE using that precise term. Get proof you sent it - either email or letter. if letter, proof of posting from a post office, first class.


Right ok, that's incredibly helpful thank you.

I have actually moved, so will get onto informing them.

I'm trying my best to get clued up on this all, seems like a bumpy road ahead. I just can't believe how they're able to do this to people.

Edit: It is worth noting that I have already admitted being the driver; I sent evidence (a screenshot) of proof of having paid for a ticket (not understanding at the time why I had been issued a fine). I naively thought their appeals process would be fair and that the ticket was possibly a mistake. I also admitted to being the driver and that I'm being held liable when initiating the appeals process via the IAS website (although haven't submitted an appeal). My Dad told me the IAS is an independent service and to appeal via them as it all work out fine. Now realising it was a big mistake, but I had no idea.

IAS have my full name, my old address, and my mobile number (which worries me), none of which it will let me edit.

I'm hoping they are legally unable to pass this onto Excel Parking.



This post has been edited by sw_19: Thu, 8 Nov 2018 - 17:17
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sw_19
post Thu, 8 Nov 2018 - 17:22
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The appeals rejection letter stated:

''We note your comment that you purchased a period of parking using RingGo and acknowledge that you have provided a copy of your payment receipt with your appeal; however in this case our enquiries show that you failed to use the correct car park identity code when making payment; by failing to use the correct car park identity code, payment for parking on the car park you used was not allocated for your parking session. On this occasion the vehicle was parked when there was no valid session to park paid for and therefore in the absence of a Pay & Display ticket, it was parked contrary to the Terms and Conditions displayed.''

Below is an image of one of the sign postings. As you can see, no mention of area identity codes.

Because of this, and because I paid for the parking ticket, my Dad is still insisting of going through the IAS, as he thinks nothing is lost by trying at least. Must admit he's persuasive, as it seems like the only option of avoiding a lengthy and arduous process.



This post has been edited by sw_19: Thu, 8 Nov 2018 - 17:24
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nosferatu1001
post Thu, 8 Nov 2018 - 18:12
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1) he's wrong. Tell him to come here and read up
2) it avoids nothing. You will lose and you then are where you are now, except with a supposedly independent" appeal they can wave under a judges nose

THEY G'TEE TO REJECT 85% OF APPEALS.
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Jlc
post Thu, 8 Nov 2018 - 19:15
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QUOTE (sw_19 @ Thu, 8 Nov 2018 - 17:22) *
Below is an image of one of the sign postings. As you can see, no mention of area identity codes.
Because of this, and because I paid for the parking ticket

Absolutely - you paid for the parking, as far as you are aware to Excel (and not to some undisclosed 3rd party).

QUOTE (sw_19 @ Thu, 8 Nov 2018 - 17:22) *
my Dad is still insisting of going through the IAS, as he thinks nothing is lost by trying at least. Must admit he's persuasive, as it seems like the only option of avoiding a lengthy and arduous process.

Reality check. There is no way to avoid a court claim (if they raise one which is quite likely) and the IAS will reject an appeal on the above. They will waive this under the Judge's nose if it goes to a hearing. This cases aren't won with the operators or the IAS - only court.

Was the helpline contacted at the time? (They'll make a play that you didn't if not)

This post has been edited by Jlc: Thu, 8 Nov 2018 - 19:17


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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