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Vehicle Control Services, Ticket in Sheffield
tonybaloney
post Tue, 19 Apr 2011 - 20:14
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I got a ticket from this lot a couple of weeks ago, in Sheffield. Me and a mate were working and had my van parked in my clients parking spot, which is controlled by VCS. I'd had a permit and a note on my dash, saying where I was working and even the operatives number, who'd said we were ok to park there a couple of weeks earlier.
We'd been there all day, without a problem aswell as all the previous day. We nipped out to the suppliers and came back about an hour later to get some paperwork signed.
The permit and note must have fallen off the dash, while we were out without us seeing. When we came back to the van, about 20 minutes after parking up, there was a ticket on it asking for the usual extortionate fee of £80.
I sent an email in, telling VCS of the circumstances. As expected, they said that the ticket would stand and gave me another 2 weeks to pay, which ends on 21/4/11, or it would go up to £120.
I know all the advice says to ignore the notice and don't acknowledge them, but if they tracked down my company as the registered keeper, they'd pay the fee and take it out of my wages aswell as a nice little "admin fee".
I can't make my mind up if the notice is filled in correctly, as the contravention code is only filled in on the bottom section of the ticket.
Any advice on this would be a great help.

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post Tue, 19 Apr 2011 - 20:14
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nosferatu1001
post Thu, 22 Sep 2016 - 17:32
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You would want to be sure of your basis though - ensure there is no landowner the parking company is contracted to, as would be common if it is say a mixed retail site.
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tonybaloney
post Thu, 22 Sep 2016 - 18:29
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They've named the company on their letters, which is how I found out who it was. The company were a management company, who I presume managed it for the landowner. It's not retail, just offices.
I'm guessing that the fact that VCS were running it for a management company, makes it even less likely that they had the right to take legal action. If I ask who they had a contract with and what rights the contract gave them, they'd have to name them and so I could confirm it.
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nosferatu1001
post Fri, 23 Sep 2016 - 06:53
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Indeed, however remember you haveto disclose your defence in advance, usually at least 14 days before the hearing, so would want to have the informaiton in place by then

Use the "good faith belief" that their claimed contract with the management company (see letter X where they confirm the company who hired them) to no longer be valid because on X date Y company went into liquidation. Confirm the rules on this, as I said, I am not 100% but I thought any company in liquidation couldnt hold contracts any longer.
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tonybaloney
post Sat, 24 Sep 2016 - 17:45
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Thanks again, Nosferatu. I've drafted a first attempt at my response, so I'd appreciate any feedback on it, please:

I write in response to your letter, dated DATE OF LETTER. As this letter does not conform to the format required by the Practice Direction on Pre-Action Conduct, Annex A Para 2, I require confirmation that you deem it to be such.

Should you consider this letter to be a compliant Letter Before Action, I will be making a Section 18 request for all relevant information and supporting documentation. This will consist of, but may not be limited to:

I. Clarification of which client you are acting for. You refer to two different clients in your correspondence.
II. The name of the Landowner for whom your client was acting at the time.
III. What act or omission gave rise to cause of action.
IV. Copies of signage in place at the time.
V. A full, un-redacted copy of the contract between your client and Landowner or Management Company, giving them permission to instigate legal action, in accordance with the BPA Legislation Guide To Operators which applied at the time.
VI. Is this claim based on a contractual agreement, breach of contract or trespass?
VII. Justification for your reference to ParkingEye Ltd v Beavis and the relevance to this claim.

To clarify the first point in the letter, you state “we are yet to receive payment and/ or a response to our letter”. This refers to your letter dated DATE OF LETTER. This letter was responded to by email on DATE OF EMAIL by email; a confirmation email was sent from yourselves immediately afterwards.

For the avoidance of doubt, I have now submitted complaints to the SRA and CSA, as advised in my previous letter. Should I not receive a correctly formatted Letter Before Action within 14 days, I shall be forwarding this latest letter as further evidence in the investigation being carried out by the SRA.

Yours Faithfully

This post has been edited by tonybaloney: Sat, 24 Sep 2016 - 17:50
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nosferatu1001
post Sat, 24 Sep 2016 - 23:36
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Any reason you're referring to annex A?

When copying and pasting, check that the information is correct 😄

Part 18.
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tonybaloney
post Sun, 25 Sep 2016 - 07:46
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Thanks again- I wondered about the Annex part, as I couldn't find it anywhere on the document.
I noticed, after my last email to them, that they didn't provide an automatic confirmation like the first time. Does email have the same same consideration as snail mail ie if it was sent, it must have been received or is it better to just mail it?
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nosferatu1001
post Sun, 25 Sep 2016 - 12:45
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If they accept documents by email then retain proof of sending. Cc it to another address.

If you have doubt, use first class post.
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tonybaloney
post Fri, 30 Sep 2016 - 19:40
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A quick update on this- I've now had replies from the CSA and SRA to say that they're both investigating BW. Just in case anyones keeping count.
I suppose their file is getting quite big now. wink.gif
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nosferatu1001
post Sat, 1 Oct 2016 - 00:25
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Fingers crossed 😀
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Lynnzer
post Sat, 1 Oct 2016 - 09:14
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QUOTE (tonybaloney @ Fri, 30 Sep 2016 - 20:40) *
A quick update on this- I've now had replies from the CSA and SRA to say that they're both investigating BW. Just in case anyones keeping count.
I suppose their file is getting quite big now. wink.gif

There's more than a few worms in their can for sure.



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tonybaloney
post Thu, 1 Dec 2016 - 18:49
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Hello again- The latest update on this, is that BW have replied to say that they don't agree with my complaint to the CSA. Surprise surprise!!
They've given me 14 days to respond, otherwise they'll assume that I'm happy with their resolution and update their records accordingly. I'm going to respond, as again, they've referred to a different amount to the original PCN (£100 instead of the original £120) and made further reference to Beavis- stating that PCN charges "serve a legitimate commercial interest".
A couple of things that I'd just like to check before I reply:

1- By replying, does this still restrict them from any legal action, as it will still be in dispute?
2- Am I right in my understanding of ParkingEye v Beavis that there was a legitimate commercial justification as it was in a Shopping Precinct, so was implemented to ensure a higher turn over of customers for the shops? My PCN was for a permit which wasn't displayed in a private parking space whilst I was working for the company that leased the space.

Any advice is gratefully accepted, as usual.
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emanresu
post Fri, 2 Dec 2016 - 07:28
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QUOTE
a legitimate commercial justification


In the claims I've seen, the "legitimate commercial justification" they refer to is the PPC's and not the clients. Why not ask them to explain the "legitimate commercial justification" in more detail.

Since BW Legal have been churning these out with this "error" in it, it appears they don't understand the Beavis case or are even bothering to quote it correctly. And the comment about the CSA is just par for the course.


--------------------
Where there is a claim - there is a counterclaim.
Are Parking companies misusing your personal data or interfering with your lease? Counterclaims are only £25. Makes them sit up and take notice. For leaseholds, join in the Managing agents too. Since the purpose of these claims is to frighten you, give them something to be frightened of.
Subject Access Requests to the DVLA?Find out who accessed your data and when. Try SubjectAccess.Requests@dvla.gsi.gov.uk. [Apologies if it does not work]
Double Dip / ANPR FaultsThe BPA Report on ANPR Double Dips is here. Ideal case for a counterclaim (see above).
Daily Court List. See who is doing what and where here
Printing and posting Witness Statements. Easy and cheap way DoxDirect
What is court like. A District Judge's view
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tonybaloney
post Fri, 2 Dec 2016 - 07:55
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Thanks emanresu- I asked them to explain their reference in my last email to them and it looks like you're right- they don't understand it. They just repeated their original line.
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nosferatu1001
post Fri, 2 Dec 2016 - 09:13
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Indeed, ask them for a detailed breakdown

Complain to the CSA that you asked the CSA to investigate your complaint, not the company you are complaining about. State that the response is incoherent, rambling and fails to adequately address a single point raised, even making basic errors such as the amount under dispute. Ask, again, that THEY investigate your complaint.
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tonybaloney
post Fri, 2 Dec 2016 - 09:35
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I'll do that- thanks Nosferatu.
Am I right to assume that no action can be taken until this is fully investigated? I've got about 3 months until the 6 year limit, which by my reckoning is about another 3, maybe 4 letters.
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Lynnzer
post Fri, 2 Dec 2016 - 09:43
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Going right back to basics, you seem to say you were parked on a space which was the property of your client.
In what way? Are they leaseholders with allocated parking spaces?

Might be useful to find out and see if they can provide the appropriate wording from their lease that mentions parking.


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tonybaloney
post Fri, 2 Dec 2016 - 09:55
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That's right, Lynnzer. The problem is that they are the local branch of a nationwide chain, so it might be tricky to find a copy of their lease.
I did find out though, that the landowner looks like their company was wound up "if that's the right business term" before the ticket was issued. That should surely mean that VCS's contract was terminated aswell.
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nosferatu1001
post Fri, 2 Dec 2016 - 10:02
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Yes. If the company went into liquidation before the ticket was issued, as far as I am aware no contracts will be valid.
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southpaw82
post Fri, 2 Dec 2016 - 10:23
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QUOTE (tonybaloney @ Fri, 2 Dec 2016 - 09:35) *
Am I right to assume that no action can be taken until this is fully investigated?

No.


--------------------


Any comments made do not constitute legal advice and should not be relied upon. No lawyer/client relationship should be assumed nor should any duty of care be owed.
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emanresu
post Sat, 3 Dec 2016 - 06:10
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QUOTE
The problem is that they are the local branch of a nationwide chain,


Is this Mainstay?

In addition, they will have a standard contract so get a copy of that.

This post has been edited by emanresu: Sat, 3 Dec 2016 - 06:10


--------------------
Where there is a claim - there is a counterclaim.
Are Parking companies misusing your personal data or interfering with your lease? Counterclaims are only £25. Makes them sit up and take notice. For leaseholds, join in the Managing agents too. Since the purpose of these claims is to frighten you, give them something to be frightened of.
Subject Access Requests to the DVLA?Find out who accessed your data and when. Try SubjectAccess.Requests@dvla.gsi.gov.uk. [Apologies if it does not work]
Double Dip / ANPR FaultsThe BPA Report on ANPR Double Dips is here. Ideal case for a counterclaim (see above).
Daily Court List. See who is doing what and where here
Printing and posting Witness Statements. Easy and cheap way DoxDirect
What is court like. A District Judge's view
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