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UKPC County Court Ruling, Primacy of Contract
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post Fri, 10 Aug 2018 - 18:15
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A word of warning for those involved in disputes with Private Parking Companies, in this case UKPC, operating on residential developments.

I attended Taunton County Court today, with regards to a judgement having been made against me at a previous address. I successfully had the originally judgement set aside, owing to not receiving the original summons sent to a previous address.

My main defence being Primacy of Contract. I purchased my property in 2006, having discussed with the developer, the parking situation, owing to the property only having a garage in a nearby block. I was informed there were no parking restrictions outside the front of my house and the deeds only covered obstruction of driveways and access ways.

I parked my vehicle outside the front of my property without incident for over 6 years.

Owing to residents and visitors to the Housing development, parking vehicles in such a manner to cause obstruction to vehicles using the access ways and also blocking driveways.
Along with Complaints being made by the Council, regarding access being restricted for the weekly refuge collection. None of these complaints related to my vehicle or the location it was parked.
In 2012, the property management company employed the services of UKPC is enforce Parking Restrictions on the Development. I disputed the use of UKPC with the Management company, but they dismissed my concerns.
The contract signed between the two, included no parking on the roadways and parking within the marked bays, none of which were in the deeds I signed.

So when UKPC started their patrols, my vehicle was targeted with over 40 tickets, over a 2 year period. I challenged the tickets with both UKPC and the Management Company, they dismissed my application to have them cancelled.

UKPC through SCS, claimed in excess of £3K from the outstanding Tickets. A Judgement was made in my absence owing to the summons not being served at my current address.

So the District Judge today, decreed that I am not entitled to park my vehicle on the roadway. His interpretation of the deeds, was that of I could drive my vehicle along roads, but not park on them. When I argued that the deeds were written in the spirit of not causing obstruction, he again stated the deeds made no reference to being able to park other than in a visitors space. I then asked as to the interpretation then inferring that you would not be able to stop or unload.

He also dismissed a previous Judgement relating to Primacy of Contract, as his interpretation negated those findings.


I managed to have a number of Tickets dismissed owing to the wording on the ticket, however he refused to listen to any further evidence relating to the tickets, wrong time and date on photo, no NIK or Reminders received, signs not complying with regulations.


With regards to the Ruling, I was also informed his was refusing permission for me to appeal.


So now I am faced with the costly dilemma, of whether to appeal to the High Court or admit defeat, something I am reluctant to do!


Any advice would be most welcome.
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post Fri, 10 Aug 2018 - 18:15
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bama
post Fri, 10 Aug 2018 - 18:36
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did you have a solicitor represent you ?
if not was this your first time in court.

expecting detail advice on miving forward with showing all relevant paperwork - including the truro judgment may be expecting a lot. you post doesn't give all rthe facts needed, only the paper trail can do that.
did at least 75% of the residents agree to the parking scheme ?
yes the paper trail for the introduction of the scheme will be needed.

This post has been edited by bama: Fri, 10 Aug 2018 - 18:37


--------------------
Which facts in any situation or problem are “essential” and what makes them “essential”? If the “essential” facts are said to depend on the principles involved, then the whole business, all too obviously, goes right around in a circle. In the light of one principle or set of principles, one bunch of facts will be the “essential” ones; in the light of another principle or set of principles, a different bunch of facts will be “essential.” In order to settle on the right facts you first have to pick your principles, although the whole point of finding the facts was to indicate which principles apply.

Note that I am not legally qualified and any and all statements made are "Reserved". Liability for application lies with the reader.
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Lobby
post Sat, 11 Aug 2018 - 09:32
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I was not represented by a solicitor.

No it was not my first time in Court.

Plenty of evidence from previous cases available to provide a defence.
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Eljayjay
post Sat, 11 Aug 2018 - 10:05
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It is difficult to form an opinion of the judgement without seeing previous correspondence, their particulars of claim, your defence, the witness statements, etc. and, of course, a transcript of the judgement.

Based on what you have said, it seems to me that, if you did anything at all wrong, you broke the terms of your lease, in which case the landlord should have raised the matter with you, possibly seeking damages from you and applying for an injunction ordering to cease and desist from parking in the road.

You could and, again, based on what you have said, perhaps you should attempt an appeal.
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Jlc
post Sat, 11 Aug 2018 - 10:07
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So to summarise, you have a garage/parking spot elsewhere but were parking outside your property?

Was the location within your demise? If not, I can see why the judge as taken the rather annoying decision.

If you are thinking of appealing this I suggest you take some professional advice - I have a well known contact (private parking specialist) that may be able to advise.

Stopping/unloading may not have been explicit but is not relevant to your situation anyway.


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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Eljayjay
post Sat, 11 Aug 2018 - 18:23
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From what you say, the Judge found that parking is forbidden where you parked. So, how is it that a management company who is almost certainly not the landowner can engage a parking company which can then offer parking there (albeit at an exorbitant charge).

It strikes me that, if parking is allowed there, the primacy of your lease should have won the day. On the other hand, if your lease resulted in parking there being forbidden, no-one who is a party to the lease can charge (or authorise a stranger to the lease to charge) for parking there. Put another way, the principle which applies to forbidding signage applies.

I imagine the lease allows the freeholder and the management company to charge Lobby for nothing more than ground rent and service charges, not parking charges.

Additionally, even if a case could be made for allowing a parking company to enter into a contract for parking on land where it is forbidden by the lease, I very much doubt that there is anything in the lease which allows a third-party to enforce the terms of the lease. And, if the lease contains no such provision, a third-party is prevented from enforcing the terms by Common Law.
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southpaw82
post Sat, 11 Aug 2018 - 18:39
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If the property is covered by a series of leases then it’s possible (and indeed likely) that the management company is a party to the leases. It may be that if the development is completed the management company is now the head lessor, the freehold having been transferred to it.

It appears from the description that the OP’s lease doesn’t grant a right to park where he did. It seems it granted a right to pass and repass. This is not the same as prohibiting parking (if it did then parking would be a breach of the terms of the lease). If the OP was on property not demised to him and not by right of a grant (i.e. out with the permission to pass and repass) then how is the position different to it being any other area of land upon which the OP was not permitted to be (or, rather, using in a way he was not permitted to do)?

To put it another way, if the lease neither permitted nor proscribed the use to which the OP was putting the land, what is the relevance of the lease?


--------------------


Any comments made do not constitute legal advice and should not be relied upon. No lawyer/client relationship should be assumed nor should any duty of care be owed.
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emanresu
post Sun, 12 Aug 2018 - 06:32
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Was it this guy?

https://www.duttongregory.co.uk/site/people...ndrew.kirkconel


--------------------
Where there is a claim - there is a counterclaim.
Are Parking companies misusing your personal data or interfering with your lease? Counterclaims are only £25. Makes them sit up and take notice. For leaseholds, join in the Managing agents too. Since the purpose of these claims is to frighten you, give them something to be frightened of.
Subject Access Requests to the DVLA?Find out who accessed your data and when. Try SubjectAccess.Requests@dvla.gsi.gov.uk. [Apologies if it does not work]
Double Dip / ANPR FaultsThe BPA Report on ANPR Double Dips is here. Ideal case for a counterclaim (see above).
Printing and posting Witness Statements. Easy and cheap way DoxDirect
What is court like. A District Judge's view
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Eljayjay
post Sun, 12 Aug 2018 - 10:56
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Lobby

If you feel you may wish to appeal, post your lease in its entirety (but after redacting your name and address).
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King312
post Mon, 13 Aug 2018 - 15:27
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QUOTE (Lobby @ Fri, 10 Aug 2018 - 19:15) *
A word of warning for those involved in disputes with Private Parking Companies, in this case UKPC, operating on residential developments.

I attended Taunton County Court today, with regards to a judgement having been made against me at a previous address......

Any advice would be most welcome.


You need to provide more information including paperwork with personal details redacted.

Is this a private road or residential road. If private road is there any communal fees as such?

If it is a public road, see my post http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=121133 I reported UKPC to the Council as they were operating on public residential roads and signs were on public lamp-posts paid by council tax payers. I complained to the council not UKPC. The signs were removed and UKPC had no leg to stand on and cancelled the ticket before I had enough information to take it to the papers as a public interest story.
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Lobby
post Wed, 15 Aug 2018 - 07:57
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QUOTE (emanresu @ Sun, 12 Aug 2018 - 06:32) *

Yes it was, why?
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emanresu
post Wed, 15 Aug 2018 - 08:47
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QUOTE
QUOTE (emanresu @ Sun, 12 Aug 2018 - 06:32) *
Was it this guy?

https://www.duttongregory.co.uk/site/people...ndrew.kirkconel QUOTE

Yes it was, why?


As the law is vast, judges tend to specialise. Kirkconel in Family law. So you get the DJ lottery which is supposed to even out in the end.

Property law is complex and you may be better / might have been better taking this to the First Tier (Property) where the Tribunal Judges are specialists in property law / leases. Not sure you could submit this case to them as it has been decided but perhaps others at the same location could do to see what legal experts decide. If they come down on the side of the residents, there may be scope to get UKPC off site as you'll likely get more tickets from them. You're on their list now.


--------------------
Where there is a claim - there is a counterclaim.
Are Parking companies misusing your personal data or interfering with your lease? Counterclaims are only £25. Makes them sit up and take notice. For leaseholds, join in the Managing agents too. Since the purpose of these claims is to frighten you, give them something to be frightened of.
Subject Access Requests to the DVLA?Find out who accessed your data and when. Try SubjectAccess.Requests@dvla.gsi.gov.uk. [Apologies if it does not work]
Double Dip / ANPR FaultsThe BPA Report on ANPR Double Dips is here. Ideal case for a counterclaim (see above).
Printing and posting Witness Statements. Easy and cheap way DoxDirect
What is court like. A District Judge's view
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roythebus
post Wed, 15 Aug 2018 - 10:28
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Going back to the original post, you purchased the property in 2006 and have parked outside for years, but you also say "I attended Taunton County Court today, with regards to a judgement having been made against me at a previous address. I successfully had the originally judgement set aside, owing to not receiving the original summons sent to a previous address."

How could a summons be sent to a previous address if you have lived at the above property since 2006?
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Churchmouse
post Fri, 17 Aug 2018 - 17:59
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QUOTE (roythebus @ Wed, 15 Aug 2018 - 10:28) *
Going back to the original post, you purchased the property in 2006 and have parked outside for years, but you also say "I attended Taunton County Court today, with regards to a judgement having been made against me at a previous address. I successfully had the originally judgement set aside, owing to not receiving the original summons sent to a previous address."

How could a summons be sent to a previous address if you have lived at the above property since 2006?

Odd wording, but the Taunton address could have been the previous address, I suppose...

In any case, before deciding whether the DJ made an error, someone would have to read the lease, the signage, the claimant's statements and evidence, etc. If the OP is just here to offer a "word of warning", however, I doubt any of that will be forthcoming.

--Churchmouse

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Eljayjay
post Sat, 18 Aug 2018 - 09:17
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Churchmouse

I think you are absolutely right.

Out of 14 posts - this will be the fifteenth - the OP has made only three of them and has shown no inclination to provide any of the documentation required.

I suspect the thread is effectively closed. I think I can here a lady sing.

This post has been edited by Eljayjay: Sat, 18 Aug 2018 - 09:17
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Lobby
post Wed, 22 Aug 2018 - 00:13
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QUOTE (Eljayjay @ Sat, 18 Aug 2018 - 10:17) *
Churchmouse

I think you are absolutely right.

Out of 14 posts - this will be the fifteenth - the OP has made only three of them and has shown no inclination to provide any of the documentation required.

I suspect the thread is effectively closed. I think I can here a lady sing.


Apologise for the lack of replies to some of your comments, unfortunately my work takes me to places where I do not have access to the internet!

The purpose of the post was to draw other victims of UKPC's attention to the latest ruling.

Before attending my own Court hearing, I had successfully assisted a fellow ex resident in having their judgement overturned, using the defence of Primacy of Contract.

The very same defence I also used, unfortunately the DDJ, decided the lease did not allow me to park outside my address, only to have access with vehicles or on foot along the roadways. Despite their being no evidence to suggest my vehicle at anytime caused obstruction to other users of the roadway.

With regards to the summons being served at a previous address and having my hearing heard in Taunton, is quite simply that I moved from the address in question in 2014! My new address is now in Somerset.

This forum is surely to offer advice on matters not to make sarcastic ill-informed comments?

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Eljayjay
post Wed, 22 Aug 2018 - 00:41
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Lobby,

Welcome back!

Almost everyone who posts on here knows what vermin the parking companies are or can be.

The point of the forum is not just to let off steam. Its a fightback forum.

What we need to know from you is whether you want to fight back by appealing.

If you do and, frankly, I hope that you do, although I realise that you may not have internet access all of the time, you need to keep in regular and frequent contact. Otherwise, the opportunity to appeal will disappear.

If you do not, please tell us and stop posting now so that we can devote our time to those whom we can help.
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emanresu
post Wed, 22 Aug 2018 - 05:45
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QUOTE
Before attending my own Court hearing, I had successfully assisted a fellow ex resident in having their judgement overturned, using the defence of Primacy of Contract.

The very same defence I also used, unfortunately the DDJ, decided the lease did not allow me to park outside my address, only to have access with vehicles or on foot along the roadways. Despite their being no evidence to suggest my vehicle at anytime caused obstruction to other users of the roadway.


There is no issue here. You took your chances and lost - the DJ Lottery as mentioned above. You can't always get the type of judge you want unless you go for a specialist court.


--------------------
Where there is a claim - there is a counterclaim.
Are Parking companies misusing your personal data or interfering with your lease? Counterclaims are only £25. Makes them sit up and take notice. For leaseholds, join in the Managing agents too. Since the purpose of these claims is to frighten you, give them something to be frightened of.
Subject Access Requests to the DVLA?Find out who accessed your data and when. Try SubjectAccess.Requests@dvla.gsi.gov.uk. [Apologies if it does not work]
Double Dip / ANPR FaultsThe BPA Report on ANPR Double Dips is here. Ideal case for a counterclaim (see above).
Printing and posting Witness Statements. Easy and cheap way DoxDirect
What is court like. A District Judge's view
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ostell
post Wed, 22 Aug 2018 - 06:25
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But for parking outside the building did you use Jopson, which went to appeal.
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nosferatu1001
post Wed, 22 Aug 2018 - 08:31
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Jopson was alll about access
It sounds from teh abvoe that you had NO RIGHT to park - just to pass and repass. Obstruction or not, pass and repass is NOT the same as parking.
Of course you lost in that case - yo uhad no demised right to park, and the judge saw that.
You seem to be mistaken as to your rights, so it suggests your conveyancer did a bad job.
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