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Letter before Claim issued by NTC (Norwich Traffic Control) / BW Legal
OllieOtter1994
post Thu, 9 Aug 2018 - 17:17
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Around a year ago SWIM received a parking fine in relation to a block of flats that hw was sharing with my housemate (who owns the flat and occupies the single underground carpark space). There are a few car park spaces situated outside for casual use and the driver had been under the impression that these were for anyone to use - with a max 2 hour stay and unrestricted access from 10pm - 8am. However he was issued with a couple of fines when leaving his car there overnight - the driver initially thought these were wrongly charged against him, but after more careful viewing he noted that the spaces were for authorised members only.

Now, I have provided pictures of the main sign and the car park bays outside the flats. He feels strongly that this has somewhat misleadingly been put together. The main sign is huge with a lot of information (but no mention of the need to be authorised) and the second sign containing info regarding this essential requirement is tiny. I have circled the main sign in green and the 'registered users only' sign in red so you can see this - another point of contention is that there is only one of these signs across all 4 bays, making it easily missable - as in his case!

At the time, the driver posted on here his query (I tried to find the original post but couldn't????) and having additionally researched online in regards to private tickets, he felt confident that these could be ignored.

However, I understand there has been a recent shift in dynamic in regards to the treatment of these private fines, and this charge has been passed over to BW Legal whose last communication to him stated that a claim is going to be issued against him should he fail to respond.

The letter reads as follows:

''we have been instructed by NTC Ltd to commence legal action in the form of issuing a claim against you in te County Court in respect of the above debt. If payment or a response is not received before 26th Aug 2018, we are instructed to issue a Claim against you in the County Court without further notice. If you dispute this debt, please tell us why so that we can help resolve this matter.''

Following this is an estimate of the additional court fees - including the base charge and additional legal fees this totals £243.48. If I pay prior to the 26th August 2018 then £160 is the charge.

I now see the driver as having a few options;

Acknowledge the fine, but dispute and prepare a defence to take to the county court - risking the additional costs if I lose
Pay the £160
Continue to ignore...?!

Despite feeling very hard done by, he is concerned whether his case will be watertight in the county court, having read online here I see many posters with more robust grounds of appeal.

I'm interested what your thoughts are on this one. Furthermore if anyone has had a similar experience or any interaction with BW legal and what happened. Any help or advise / further detail on the likely routes this will take and his best option would be most appreciated please!!

Thanks in advance for your help!

This post has been edited by OllieOtter1994: Fri, 10 Aug 2018 - 17:14
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post Thu, 9 Aug 2018 - 17:17
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kommando
post Thu, 9 Aug 2018 - 18:10
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Edit your post so the driver is only referred to as 'The Driver' you are the keeper and the keeper has been sent all the paperwork.

You do not continue to ignore.

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Jlc
post Thu, 9 Aug 2018 - 18:42
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Can we see the wording on the other sign, as I agree the main sign clearly states no restrictions from 10pm to 8am...

The claim is for 1 PCN only?


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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Chijiki
post Thu, 9 Aug 2018 - 19:11
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OllieOtter,

Would this be the original thread you referred to?

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=116260
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OllieOtter1994
post Fri, 10 Aug 2018 - 13:37
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Hi all,

Thanks for the messages, I have edited the OP.

Unfortunately I do not have a picture of the other signs. However the parking bays can be viewed at here on google maps - hopefully this helps:

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@52.6212707,1...3312!8i6656

Yes! That is the original post from just over a year ago - it appears his memory of this is a bit hazy... He received council fines and private fines whilst in this bay and his OP from 2017 was regarding the council fine - which he paid at the discounted rate in the end. He sends his apologies..

For the private fines that were also received, he was under the impression he could ignore - I believe a few were received but this particularly BW Legal communication is only in regards to one fine.

Hopefully this additional info helps, thanks again in advance.
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kommando
post Fri, 10 Aug 2018 - 13:56
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He has received a letter before claim, this needs to be replied to, what else came with the letter.
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OllieOtter1994
post Fri, 10 Aug 2018 - 15:04
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He has sent the attached photos of this most recent communication, thanks.

He has sent the attached photos of this most recent communication, thanks.

well they've not uploaded in order...

Image 3 = page 1
Image 2 = page 2

The rest comprise of an information sheet / reply form.
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Redivi
post Fri, 10 Aug 2018 - 16:43
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The title of this thread needs changing to say it's a Letter Before Claim, not a County Court claim
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OllieOtter1994
post Fri, 10 Aug 2018 - 17:15
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Done, apologies.
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emanresu
post Sat, 11 Aug 2018 - 05:28
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You've also left all your personal details on which is OK if you are happy about it. The only issue there is that if it does go to a claim the whole thread could be produced in court.

Which is why I'd like to add that NTC are idiots and BW are a bunch of crooks.


--------------------
Where there is a claim - there is a counterclaim.
Are Parking companies misusing your personal data or interfering with your lease? Counterclaims are only £25. Makes them sit up and take notice. For leaseholds, join in the Managing agents too. Since the purpose of these claims is to frighten you, give them something to be frightened of.
Subject Access Requests to the DVLA?Find out who accessed your data and when. Try SubjectAccess.Requests@dvla.gsi.gov.uk. [Apologies if it does not work]
Double Dip / ANPR FaultsThe BPA Report on ANPR Double Dips is here. Ideal case for a counterclaim (see above).
Daily Court List. See who is doing what and where here
Printing and posting Witness Statements. Easy and cheap way DoxDirect
What is court like. A District Judge's view
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OllieOtter1994
post Mon, 13 Aug 2018 - 14:39
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Is that likely to count against the driver?

Is his best option to pay the fine now? Or to pursue in court?
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cabbyman
post Mon, 13 Aug 2018 - 15:02
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Although it's not difficult for them to identify a thread, there are things discussed on here which could give the game away. You want to make it as difficult as possible for them, so you would be well advised to redact personal details and reference numbers from those scans, not forgetting barcodes and QR codes.

You also don't appear to have grasped the difference between the driver and the registered keeper.

Unless the driver's identity has been admitted, or hinted at least, they have no knowledge of who the driver is. This means they must jump through certain hoops to succeed in holding the RK liable. Their failure to jump through these hoops is often a major plank of your defence. You must try and understand this fundamental but vital difference.


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Cabbyman 10 PPCs 0
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