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Parking Ticket due to lack of phone signal!
seanymac
post Mon, 6 Aug 2018 - 14:17
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so the driver of a car, parked at a university who use a parking operator for their car park where you can pay on your phone via an app which the driver has done a few times. Due to this, the driver usually empty the car of the recruitment material, walk to the hall about a minute away and pay the fee whilst getting a coffee. the driver did this and put 3 hours on it and seen it confirm as usual (or atleast they thought) and put it away as they walked into the main hall where the fair was being held. Now in the hall, there is no signal, you cant take calls etc. around 2 hours into it the driver walked out of the hall to the toilet and their phone start pinging and they get a text saying the parking had only just started. they then thought it must be a mistake and then when they went outside there was a ticket on my car. they spoke to the parking operator who said he knew inside the university you cant get a signal however they was so used to doing this that it always went through.

Anyway, the driver is now in the spot where they fully intended to pay however due to a circumstance beyond their control the payment didnt go through untilthey came out again. they have also spoken to the rep at the university who said hed be happy to help as he knows its not their fault.

How do you think the driver should go about appealing and is it worth doing so?

This post has been edited by seanymac: Tue, 7 Aug 2018 - 18:39
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post Mon, 6 Aug 2018 - 14:17
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cp8759
post Mon, 6 Aug 2018 - 14:49
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You say parking operator so I assume it's not a Council PCN. I'll ask a MOD to move


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I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
No, I am not a lawyer.
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seanymac
post Mon, 6 Aug 2018 - 14:58
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apologies if incorrect, just says PCN on it by BPA on it if that helps!
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cabbyman
post Mon, 6 Aug 2018 - 17:09
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Who is the 'parking operator?'


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Cabbyman 9 PPCs 0
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Redivi
post Mon, 6 Aug 2018 - 18:24
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Salford University PCNs are usually issued by Parking Solutions 24 Ltd

Wait until Day 26 before sending an appeal as the keeper
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The Rookie
post Tue, 7 Aug 2018 - 04:11
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Edit your post, you are the keeper, refer to the driver only as 'the driver' never give away the driver ID in any way.

Does the signage mention WHEN you have to pay by phone by, or just state you can?


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seanymac
post Tue, 7 Aug 2018 - 15:30
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Hi All

how should the driver respond back with and whether you believe they have a chance of winning an appeal or whether they should just pay the fine.

the driver went back today to check the signage and it states the following:

"payments must be made by phone at the time of parking. If you cannot pay by phone then use alternative method"

two points they are hoping you agree with:
1. what is time of parking? can they get away with saying this is ambiguous as it can sound like at the time of parking could mean during the duration of my parking.
2. they could pay by phone, they have never had trouble previously with this, this was due to being in a hall where my phone was around 1 bar signal which ust have meant it struggled to send the confirmation out despite them thinking it was fine.

Also, they asked the university can they intervene and theyve said no and they should have used a pay and display, their response was that it was unreasonable to ask them to pay twice in case phone signal wasnt good, they take it was all assume these things will go through fine as it did go through just later than expected. They did state however that if they submitted the wrong reg and it was a first time, they could cancel.. they submitted the right reg but just didnt go through in time but they refused to help which is frustrating.

Any advice on this?

This post has been edited by seanymac: Tue, 7 Aug 2018 - 18:38
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Jlc
post Tue, 7 Aug 2018 - 15:39
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Convincing a PPC to cancel a ticket is nigh on impossible. You paid and they're pursuing on a technicality. It's frustrating why the principal won't intervene here.

Which is where the day 26 'technicality' comes into play. Appeal as the keeper (do not reveal the driver) giving the keeper details so that they 'forget' to access the DVLA (or in greed save their £2.50 access fee). By doing this they will fail keeper liability under Protection of Freedoms Act and it's an easy win at POPLA.

One recommendation is to provide a slightly different keeper address to prove the DVLA wasn't accessed, e.g. if you live in green road, give them greene road...

Oh, and they've never raised a court claim to date - so low risk anyway...

This post has been edited by Jlc: Tue, 7 Aug 2018 - 15:38


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RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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The Rookie
post Tue, 7 Aug 2018 - 16:44
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If you insist on giving away the driver ID, go right ahead, but that’s your second post needing editing now as well. Please THINK about this, when describing the drivers actions, no he, she etc.


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There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

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seanymac
post Tue, 7 Aug 2018 - 18:06
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QUOTE (The Rookie @ Tue, 7 Aug 2018 - 16:44) *
If you insist on giving away the driver ID, go right ahead, but that’s your second post needing editing now as well. Please THINK about this, when describing the drivers actions, no he, she etc.


hi there, sorry if im doing anything wrong, i dont really understand what to say or do here. what would you do in the keepers position right now?
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cabbyman
post Tue, 7 Aug 2018 - 18:10
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Go through all your comments and EDIT to refer only to 'the driver.' This is CRUCIAL. PPCs watch this forum. If they are able to infer the driver's identity, a substantial part of your argument disappears.


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Cabbyman 9 PPCs 0
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seanymac
post Tue, 7 Aug 2018 - 18:39
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ive changed the posts to not identify the driver.

can someone please provide any advice or maybe how the driver should respond back?
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cabbyman
post Tue, 7 Aug 2018 - 18:49
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The driver mustn't respond. The registered keeper appeals at about day 25/26 with a minor error in the name or address, eg, Grene instead of Green or Simth instead of Smith. If they don't apply to DVLA for RK's details, they fail a PoFA requirement. The slight error gives you a clue if they did.

Given your responses so far, you need to get out of this thread and do a lot of reading around the forum and over on MSE.

Draft your initial appeal and post it here for checking, pending the effluxion of time to 25 days.


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Cabbyman 9 PPCs 0
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seanymac
post Tue, 7 Aug 2018 - 18:52
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hi there

thanks for this.

i would prefer to just appeal asap so if they reject it it stays at the half fine rather than the full fine which is why i was asking whether you think my reason for the late payment wold work and if there is anything else i might need to consider?
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cabbyman
post Tue, 7 Aug 2018 - 19:11
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You won't be paying 'half fine.' Half of zero is zero!

GET OUT of this thread, start reading, understanding and drafting your initial appeal.

Your questions indicate that your have not read anything yet. You know your appeal is not going to work but following tried and trusted methods, you strengthen your case for later appeal to POPLA. However, we don't do the work for you. We understand the process, you don't; you need to learn so that you know what is going on.


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Cabbyman 9 PPCs 0
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seanymac
post Tue, 7 Aug 2018 - 19:20
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go and read the forum? the whole of it? a particular part? what is MSE?

also, please dont be rude to me, GET OUT comes across so badly.

ive read that popla is if they reject my appeal. if they do, ill pay it. i would like to know whether there are any tips to getting it right on the first appeal or not. i would appreciate maybe linking me to some advice on how to respond to this appeal if you can please.
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cabbyman
post Tue, 7 Aug 2018 - 19:54
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How many appeals have you found that have been allowed by a PPC? Your first appeal will be rejected; it's part of the game. You will not get it right on first appeal; no one does.

Search for some of my completed threads against Met Parking and CEL. Pick any 5 threads on the first page of the private parking forum. Read and understand.

At the moment, just reading part of the forum would answer some of your questions and show other contributors that you are making an effort. So, I say again: GET OUT of this thread and start reading. After 16 posts, I feel rude. At post #20, I may actually BE rude!


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Cabbyman 9 PPCs 0
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seanymac
post Tue, 7 Aug 2018 - 20:03
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lets be perfectly clear here. you will not be rude to me at all. get some manners about you.

I will read up and respond , you can choose to help or not after that so long as you are polite.
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cabbyman
post Tue, 7 Aug 2018 - 20:10
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Let's hope by post #20 you have:

1) Read and tried to understand, as advised.

2) You have drafted your initial appeal, as advised.

3) You have posted your initial draft here for review, as advised.

4) Other knowledgeable contributors are not put off by your petulance and will continue to assist you.

Or, of course, you could continue wasting both your time and mine by arguing. I know the answers. I am trying to encourage you to learn the answers. GET OUT of this thread and read!


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Cabbyman 9 PPCs 0
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seanymac
post Tue, 7 Aug 2018 - 20:20
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Grow up
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