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Parking charge Notice issued 15 months after incident
Klingoff
post Fri, 13 Jul 2018 - 07:09
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Hi there. I canme home yesterday to find a parking charge notice from a private company for £100 (£60 if paid within 14 days) for an incident in April 2017! The car park was free for 2 hours but the stay was timed at 150 minutes. There are cctv pictures with the letter which are time stamped. It's not possible on the cctv photos to see who is driving.

I would imagine the delay in sending me this notice is due to the car being a company car via a leasing company. I came off the company car scheme in may 2017, however I am assuming the leasing company have given the car park operator my details.

Having done a bit of reading last night on this great website and on MSE I understand that there are rules around the car park operator approaching the leasing company within 28 days of the offense for details of the hirer, and then the same for approaching the hirer.

My plan is to write back (using the template from MSE) stating the reasons why they have not been compliant. Is this the right course of action? Any further advice?

Still a bit surprised to have received this so long after the incident - is there not a time limit for issuing these invoices?

Thanks!

This post has been edited by Klingoff: Fri, 13 Jul 2018 - 09:07
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post Fri, 13 Jul 2018 - 07:09
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Jlc
post Fri, 13 Jul 2018 - 07:34
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QUOTE (Klingoff @ Fri, 13 Jul 2018 - 08:09) *
is there not a time limit for issuing these invoices?

They have 6 years to pursue the 'debt'... But the DVLA don't like giving out keeper details after 6 months - but this may have happened much earlier and now they've used a trace service to find you.

Which parking company?


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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Klingoff
post Fri, 13 Jul 2018 - 07:46
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QUOTE (Jlc @ Fri, 13 Jul 2018 - 08:34) *
Which parking company?


It's Vehicle Control Services.

QUOTE (Jlc @ Fri, 13 Jul 2018 - 08:34) *
But the DVLA don't like giving out keeper details after 6 months - but this may have happened much earlier and now they've used a trace service to find you.

Could be, but the fact they've used the shortened version of my name suggests they've got my details from the lease company.

Are the rules around timing different if they've got the details from a tracing service and not the lease company? I was thinking of ringing the lease company up and finding out when they we're contacted and when they responded.
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The Rookie
post Fri, 13 Jul 2018 - 08:34
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Ring the lease company (they are probably charging you an admin fee anyway).

The registered keeper has to be contacted within 14 days for them to be able to hold the keeper liable, otherwise they can only hold the driver (who they don't know) liable.



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ostell
post Fri, 13 Jul 2018 - 08:40
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Yes they have got your details as the hirer from the lease company. Why would the DVLA have your details?

There is a time limit for the Notice to Keeper to the sent to the lease company, 14 days. They then have 28 days to tell the parking company who the hirer was and include some of the hire detail documents. The PPC have 21 days to contact the hirer and also include with that notice to hirer the copies of the hire documents and the original NTK.

Bet you didn't get the additional paperwork, as well as being out of time. Here's POFA. You will need to send a quick BOGOFF letter to VCS telling them that you can not possibly be liable. Sections 13 & 14 are to do with hire vehicles, 14 (2) (a), is probably what they failed on.

I'm assuming that the documents were not included with the letter

Sir,

I was the hirer of vehicle xxxx and have received a notice to hirer/keeper xxxxxx from you.

You have failed to conform with the requirements of Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 namely, but not limited to, failing to supply the additional paperwork as prescribed by section 14 (2) (a) and as such you cannot transfer liability from the driver to me. There is no legal requirement for me to identify the driver at the time, even if I could remember after this period of time, and I will therefore not be doing so.

I do not expect to hear from you again about this matter, other than to confirm that no further action will be taken against me on the matter and my personal details have been removed from your records

Yours


Send this so that it arrives just before the end of 21 days allowed so that they can't send a corrected version then sit back and see what happens. It's VCS they won't go away but don't be tempted to use their "Independent Appeal Service", it's far from independant.

This post has been edited by ostell: Fri, 13 Jul 2018 - 09:09
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Klingoff
post Fri, 13 Jul 2018 - 08:57
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Thanks everyone.

I have spoken to the lease company, they are not charging me an admin fee!

The lease company received the original communication from VCS 18 days after the incident. They wrote back 5 days later. So VCS have sat on the info for nearly 15 months.

The lease company suggested I ring VCS in the first instance - is this a good idea or better just to write?
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ostell
post Fri, 13 Jul 2018 - 09:02
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Don't ring, ever, send that letter I suggested. You could let slip who the driver was. They are recording, you aren't. Never identify the driver, even if you did know who it was.

If it goes further then you have definite other failures to comply with POFA, ie the delay.
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Jlc
post Fri, 13 Jul 2018 - 09:13
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QUOTE (Klingoff @ Fri, 13 Jul 2018 - 09:57) *
So VCS have sat on the info for nearly 15 months.

That would be bizarre - they usually don't sit on details when they can be sending out invoices and threatening letters.


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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Redivi
post Fri, 13 Jul 2018 - 09:15
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I was the hirer of vehicle xxxx and have received a notice to hirer/keeper xxxxxx from you

Is that actually true if it was a company car ?
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Klingoff
post Fri, 13 Jul 2018 - 09:24
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QUOTE (Redivi @ Fri, 13 Jul 2018 - 10:15) *
I was the hirer of vehicle xxxx and have received a notice to hirer/keeper xxxxxx from you

Is that actually true if it was a company car ?

The Parking Charge Notice is sub titled Notice to Hirer.

My company didn't own the car, it was leased.




QUOTE (ostell @ Fri, 13 Jul 2018 - 09:40) *
It's VCS they won't go away...

What are they likely to do next?
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ostell
post Fri, 13 Jul 2018 - 09:30
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First is that they will offer to allow the IAS to adjudicate but the IAS is run by the same people that run the the IPC and the solicitors they use. Not normally recommended but with a POFA fail then it may, just may, succeed. Then it is debt collectors letters and final a letter before court action. They may actually try and take it to court but they would be rather stupid to do so when they have made so many mistakes.

Was i correct in that there was no additional pieces of paper?

This post has been edited by ostell: Fri, 13 Jul 2018 - 09:30
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Redivi
post Fri, 13 Jul 2018 - 09:52
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My company didn't own the car, it was leased.

But you're not the one that leased it therefore you were the keeper not the hirer
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nosferatu1001
post Fri, 13 Jul 2018 - 10:00
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Indeed, you were the keeper
Irrelevant as VCS dont use POFA notices anyway, last I saw. So they will likely say they will chase you assuming you are the driver. Read the notice carefully, ill put a £1 on it!

Write back using the bogofff. You will then get a load of debt collector letters and possibly a court claim in the distant future. To help this if you move ensure you send them your new ADDRESS FOR SERVICE. Make this clear using that exact phrase.

You could annoy them by sending them a DSAR (free, entirely) and see why they sat on this for so long.
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Klingoff
post Fri, 13 Jul 2018 - 10:25
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The parking charge notice states that a notice to keeper has been served on the registered keeper, who have named me as the hirer.

Nowhere does the PCN state a claim as to whom the driver was.

It says that as the hirer I am invited to either.
A) pay the fine
B) provide name and address of the driver
C) deny I was the hirer or appeal.

They say the have "photographic evidence and data on file" to support their claim (presumably the claim that I am the hirer.)

Should I state in my letter that I deny that I was the hirer? Or just ignore that?
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ostell
post Fri, 13 Jul 2018 - 11:44
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Don't say anything that is untrue, it could back to bite you hard, they do know that you were the hirer, they don't know who the driver was at the time and that is the only person they can claim against as the have seriously failed at POFA. Having the data on file about the hirer does them no good as they did not send it to you.

You haven't confirmed one way or the other that no additional documents were received from them. Just send that BOGOFF I suggested in post #5 amd wait and see what they do. They know they are going nowhere on this but just hope that you don't know the rules. You could post up the Notice to Hirer that you received, redacting identifying details, to see what other sections of POFA they have not complied with.
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Klingoff
post Fri, 13 Jul 2018 - 12:04
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QUOTE (ostell @ Fri, 13 Jul 2018 - 10:30) *
Was i correct in that there was no additional pieces of paper?

Sorry missed your question earlier! You were indeed correct, no additional paperwork.
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Redivi
post Fri, 13 Jul 2018 - 12:16
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They say the have "photographic evidence and data on file" to support their claim (presumably the claim that I am the hirer.)

The only photographic evidence they can possibly have is the entry and exit times of the car

You could deny that you were the hirer but VCS would then go back to the lease company who would probably name your company

That opens a new can of worms if you have an employer that automatically pays parking notices and deducts from salaries
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ostell
post Fri, 13 Jul 2018 - 12:17
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OK send that BOGOFF appeal. If you are going to add additional wording them please post up for critique first.
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Klingoff
post Fri, 13 Jul 2018 - 13:34
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Thanks ostell, I will use your suggested wording.

You said earlier to wait until just before the 21 days are up, do you mean 21 days from the date on the notice to hirer? I thought VCS had to issue all the relevant docs to hirer within 21 days of receipt from the lease company, which is circa 15 months ago? If so why do I need to wait?

Thanks again.
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ostell
post Fri, 13 Jul 2018 - 13:49
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They do have to do that but to save any arguments, ie we asked the lease company twice and sent after the second response, just send so that they can't send again within the required 21 days. Frustrating but better safe then sorry.
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