PePiPoo Helping the motorist get justice

Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

Gladstone's LBC
whitemouse75
post Mon, 2 Jul 2018 - 07:20
Post #1


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 12
Joined: 2 Jul 2018
Member No.: 98,693



Hi all

need some sharpish advice please - received a letter before claim this morning from gladstone's, however its dated 5th June, so i dont have any time left to meet the response 30 days if i dont act quickly

quick summary: the driver went to blackpool for the night, no parking anywhere near B&B, so owner said park on that disused factory site opposite. Saturday night, no issue, the driver woke up sunday nothing on the car so left happy. few weeks later they started getting the usual demands, ignored as per usual.

this is the first LBC the driver has ever received, and if they had the 30 days could defend the time researching, and will, but they need some help on a quick fire response please.

No windscreen PCN, no other letters from gladstone's received

This post has been edited by whitemouse75: Mon, 2 Jul 2018 - 07:39
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
2 Pages V   1 2 >  
Start new topic
Replies (1 - 19)
Advertisement
post Mon, 2 Jul 2018 - 07:20
Post #


Advertise here!









Go to the top of the page
 
Quote Post
kommando
post Mon, 2 Jul 2018 - 07:27
Post #2


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 3,939
Joined: 6 Oct 2012
Member No.: 57,558



Edit your post so driver's identity is not inferred.


Where there was no windscreen ticket they have 14 days to deliver a ntk ( notice to keeper) to be able to hold the keeper liable for the actions of the driver.

This post has been edited by kommando: Mon, 2 Jul 2018 - 07:30
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
ostell
post Mon, 2 Jul 2018 - 07:29
Post #3


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 7,748
Joined: 8 Mar 2013
Member No.: 60,457



Rewrite so that the identity of the driver cannot be inferred, use "the driver ..... " etc.

Location please so that any signs can be seen and status of the car park. Google Maps street view.

Who are the parking company? How many weeks are "few". with no windscreen ticket then they have to get the Notice to keeper to you within 14 days to be able to transfer liability from the unknow driver to the keeper.

This post has been edited by ostell: Mon, 2 Jul 2018 - 07:29
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
whitemouse75
post Mon, 2 Jul 2018 - 07:44
Post #4


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 12
Joined: 2 Jul 2018
Member No.: 98,693



I dont believe the driver kept the original postal charge, so unsure if 14 days was correct but pretty sure it was much later than that.

The location was whisky online, FY1 4PE, looks like an empty building, may or may not be. Was very late at light on arrival, very dark, poorly lit area. Signs are visible on google street view, unsure if there or not tbh at the time, B&B owner gave the advice

Parking company are Es Parking Enforcement Ltd

This post has been edited by whitemouse75: Mon, 2 Jul 2018 - 07:45
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Jlc
post Mon, 2 Jul 2018 - 09:28
Post #5


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 28,596
Joined: 25 Aug 2011
From: With Mickey
Member No.: 49,223



QUOTE (whitemouse75 @ Mon, 2 Jul 2018 - 08:44) *
B&B owner gave the advice

Unfortunately, they had no rights (it appears) to give such advice. If one was being particularly cynical they may be on a kick-back...

Very litigious firm - so poor (unlit) signage appears to be the key defence.


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
ostell
post Mon, 2 Jul 2018 - 12:47
Post #6


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 7,748
Joined: 8 Mar 2013
Member No.: 60,457



IT was here.. Were you actually in Whisky Galore or the next warehouse.

Whiskey galore seems to be sayiny customer parking. If you were not a customer then you were parking and only the landholder can take action for trespass.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Jlc
post Mon, 2 Jul 2018 - 12:57
Post #7


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 28,596
Joined: 25 Aug 2011
From: With Mickey
Member No.: 49,223



Signs look pretty rubbish even in daylight! Can't see that closely for words but seems to fail Beavis test.


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
ostell
post Mon, 2 Jul 2018 - 15:25
Post #8


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 7,748
Joined: 8 Mar 2013
Member No.: 60,457



Can you get the B & B to send you pictures of the sign. Explain that you are being charged for parking there at their suggestion.

Basically your defence is that the signs could not be seen and therefore there could not be any contract in place.

Secondly the signs, when read, are stating Customer Parking only and therefore are not offering parking to non customers and therefore there can be no breach of a non existent contract.

Any claim could only be for trespass and that can only be claimed for a nominal; sum by the landholder and not the parking company.

The do not have the right to take court action in their own right and if they insist they do then you require a copy of the contract with the landowner

That's a few points for startes.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
whitemouse75
post Mon, 2 Jul 2018 - 18:37
Post #9


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 12
Joined: 2 Jul 2018
Member No.: 98,693



QUOTE (ostell @ Mon, 2 Jul 2018 - 13:47) *
IT was here.. Were you actually in Whisky Galore or the next warehouse.

Whiskey galore seems to be sayiny customer parking. If you were not a customer then you were parking and only the landholder can take action for trespass.



parked in the spot between the passat and the fiat i think
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
ostell
post Mon, 2 Jul 2018 - 21:42
Post #10


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 7,748
Joined: 8 Mar 2013
Member No.: 60,457



OK that spot looks as though it was connected to the property that was for sale. None of the signs seem to have an offer of parking, the upper wones just have "Warning2 and text I can't read but certainly not an offer of a contract to park.

Who is the parking compnay?
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
whitemouse75
post Mon, 2 Jul 2018 - 22:01
Post #11


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 12
Joined: 2 Jul 2018
Member No.: 98,693



Es parking enforcement limited
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
ostell
post Tue, 3 Jul 2018 - 06:43
Post #12


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 7,748
Joined: 8 Mar 2013
Member No.: 60,457



OK write to Gladstones requesting all the documentation that they will be relying on court so that matters can be narrowed down for the court. In particular you require a copy of the Notice to keeper, the contract that allows their client to issue parking charges and copies ond maps of the signs. You require this information by return and in any case within 10 days so that you can respond appropriately to their letter.

ES Parking are quite litigious so it is as well to respond. They could have been tempted to proceed by the lack of response and were hoping for a default judgement.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
whitemouse75
post Tue, 3 Jul 2018 - 06:47
Post #13


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 12
Joined: 2 Jul 2018
Member No.: 98,693





made this using templates from MSE, sound ok?

Dear Sirs,

Thank you for your letter of .

When I first received letters from your clients, I responded asking for evidence of the debt allegedly owed, as I had never received a parking charge notice. I have heard nothing back from them as yet.

You have now sent a Letter Before Claim. However, your letter contains insufficient detail of the claim and, again, fails to provide the evidence which I requested as long ago as November 2017. It does not even say what the cause of action is. Nor does it contain any mention of what evidence your client intends to rely on or enclose copies of such evidence.

Your client must know that on 01 October 2017 a new protocol is applicable to debt claims. Since proceedings have not yet been issued, the new protocol clearly applies and must be complied with.

Your letter lacks specificity and breaches both the requirements of the previously applicable Practice Direction - Pre-Action Conduct (paragraphs 6(a) and 6©) and the new Pre-Action Protocol for Debt Claims (paragraphs 3.1(a)-(d), 5.1 and 5.2. Please treat this letter as a formal request for all of the documents / information that the protocol now requires your client to provide. Your client must not issue proceedings without complying with that protocol. I reserve the right to draw any failure of the Claimant to comply with the protocol to the attention of the court and to ask the court to stay the claim and order your client to comply with its pre-action obligations, and when costs come to be considered.

As solicitors you must surely be familiar with the requirements of both the Practice Direction applicable pre-1 October and the Protocol which applies thereafter (and your client, as a serial litigator of small claims, should likewise be aware of them). As you (and your client) must know, the Practice Direction and Protocol bind all potential litigants, whatever the size or type of the claim. Its express purpose is to assist parties in understanding the claim and their respective positions in relation to it, to enable parties to take stock of their positions and to negotiate a settlement, or at least narrow the issues, without incurring the costs of court proceedings or using up valuable court time. It is astounding that a firm of Solicitors are sending a consumer a vague !!!8216;Letter before Claim' in complete ignorance of the pre-existing Practice Direction and the new Protocol.

Nobody, including your client, is immune from the requirements and obligations of the Practice Direction and now the Protocol.

I require your client to comply with its obligations by sending me the following information/documents:

1. an explanation of the cause of action
2. whether they are pursuing me as driver or keeper
3. whether they are relying on the provisions of Schedule 4 of POFA 2012
4. what the details of the claim are; where it is claimed the vehicle was parked, for how long, how the monies being claimed arose and have been calculated
5. Is the claim for a contractual breach? If so, what is the date of the agreement? The names of the parties to it and provide to me a copy of that contract.
6. Is the claim for trespass? If so, provide details.
7. Provide me a copy of the contract with the landowner under which they assert authority to bring the claim, as required by the IPC code of practice section B, clause 1.1 establishing yourself as the creditor.
8. a plan showing where any signs were displayed
9. details of the signs displayed (size of sign, size of font, height at which displayed)
10. Provide details of the original charge and detail any interest and administrative or other charges added
11. Provide a copy of the Information Sheet and the Reply Form



I am clearly entitled to this information under paragraphs 6(a) and 6© of the Practice Direction. I also need it in order to comply with my own obligations under paragraph 6(b).


If your client does not provide me with this information then I put you on notice that I will be relying on the cases of Webb Resolutions Ltd v Waller Needham & Green [2012] EWHC 3529 (Ch), Daejan Investments Limited v The Park West Club Limited (Part 20) 8211; Buxton Associates [2003] EWHC 2872, Charles Church Developments Ltd v Stent Foundations Limited & Peter Dann Limited [2007] EWHC 855 in asking the court to impose sanctions on your client and to order a stay of the proceedings, pursuant to paragraphs 13 ,15(b) and © and 16. I will draw to the court the fact that I have expressly requested this information since as early as November 2017, yet your client has refused to provide it, saying that it will not do so until this matter reaches the court.


Until your client has complied with its obligations and provided this information, I am unable to respond properly to the alleged claim and to consider my position in relation to it, and it is entirely premature (and a waste of costs and court time) for your client to issue proceedings. Should your client do so, then I will seek an immediate stay pursuant to paragraph 15(b) of the Practice Direction and an order that this information is provided.



Yours faithfully

This post has been edited by whitemouse75: Tue, 3 Jul 2018 - 06:48
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
ostell
post Tue, 3 Jul 2018 - 06:58
Post #14


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 7,748
Joined: 8 Mar 2013
Member No.: 60,457



Their client isn't expected to know the ins and outs of the PAP, that's the job of the solicitor. Don't lie about nothing received and correspondence with them in November if not true.

Add a copy of the Notice to Keeper to that list.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
whitemouse75
post Tue, 3 Jul 2018 - 07:03
Post #15


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 12
Joined: 2 Jul 2018
Member No.: 98,693



Dear Sirs,

Thank you for your letter


You have sent a Letter Before Claim. However, your letter contains insufficient detail of the claim. It does not even say what the cause of action is. Nor does it contain any mention of what evidence your client intends to rely on or enclose copies of such evidence.

Your letter lacks specificity and breaches both the requirements of the previously applicable Practice Direction - Pre-Action Conduct (paragraphs 6(a) and 6©) and the new Pre-Action Protocol for Debt Claims (paragraphs 3.1(a)-(d), 5.1 and 5.2. Please treat this letter as a formal request for all of the documents / information that the protocol now requires your client to provide. Your client must not issue proceedings without complying with that protocol. I reserve the right to draw any failure of the Claimant to comply with the protocol to the attention of the court and to ask the court to stay the claim and order your client to comply with its pre-action obligations, and when costs come to be considered.

As solicitors you must surely be familiar with the requirements of both the Practice Direction applicable pre-1 October and the Protocol which applies thereafter (and your client, as a serial litigator of small claims, should likewise be aware of them). As you (and your client) must know, the Practice Direction and Protocol bind all potential litigants, whatever the size or type of the claim. Its express purpose is to assist parties in understanding the claim and their respective positions in relation to it, to enable parties to take stock of their positions and to negotiate a settlement, or at least narrow the issues, without incurring the costs of court proceedings or using up valuable court time. It is astounding that a firm of Solicitors are sending a consumer a vague ‘Letter before Claim' in complete ignorance of the pre-existing Practice Direction and the new Protocol.

Nobody, including your client, is immune from the requirements and obligations of the Practice Direction and now the Protocol.

I require your client to comply with its obligations by sending me the following information/documents:

1. an explanation of the cause of action
2. whether they are pursuing me as driver or keeper
3. a copy of the notice to keeper
4. whether they are relying on the provisions of Schedule 4 of POFA 2012
5. what the details of the claim are; where it is claimed the vehicle was parked, for how long, how the monies being claimed arose and have been calculated
6. Is the claim for a contractual breach? If so, what is the date of the agreement? The names of the parties to it and provide to me a copy of that contract.
7. Is the claim for trespass? If so, provide details.
8. Provide me a copy of the contract with the landowner under which they assert authority to bring the claim, as required by the IPC code of practice section B, clause 1.1 establishing yourself as the creditor.
9. a plan showing where any signs were displayed
10. details of the signs displayed (size of sign, size of font, height at which displayed)
11. Provide details of the original charge and detail any interest and administrative or other charges added
12. Provide a copy of the Information Sheet and the Reply Form



I am clearly entitled to this information under paragraphs 6(a) and 6© of the Practice Direction. I also need it in order to comply with my own obligations under paragraph 6(b).


If your client does not provide me with this information then I put you on notice that I will be relying on the cases of Webb Resolutions Ltd v Waller Needham & Green [2012] EWHC 3529 (Ch), Daejan Investments Limited v The Park West Club Limited (Part 20) 8211; Buxton Associates [2003] EWHC 2872, Charles Church Developments Ltd v Stent Foundations Limited & Peter Dann Limited [2007] EWHC 855 in asking the court to impose sanctions on your client and to order a stay of the proceedings, pursuant to paragraphs 13 ,15(b) and © and 16. I will draw to the court the fact that I have expressly requested this information since as early as November 2017, yet your client has refused to provide it, saying that it will not do so until this matter reaches the court.


Until your client has complied with its obligations and provided this information, I am unable to respond properly to the alleged claim and to consider my position in relation to it, and it is entirely premature (and a waste of costs and court time) for your client to issue proceedings. Should your client do so, then I will seek an immediate stay pursuant to paragraph 15(b) of the Practice Direction and an order that this information is provided.



Yours faithfully


better?

This post has been edited by whitemouse75: Tue, 3 Jul 2018 - 07:04
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
ostell
post Tue, 3 Jul 2018 - 07:28
Post #16


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 7,748
Joined: 8 Mar 2013
Member No.: 60,457



The client is not obliged to send, it is the solicitor that is obliged to send as the solicitors should have all the documents in their possession before starting the case. It is the duty of the solicitor to send the docs. The solicitor is acting for the client.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
whitemouse75
post Tue, 3 Jul 2018 - 07:35
Post #17


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 12
Joined: 2 Jul 2018
Member No.: 98,693



QUOTE (ostell @ Tue, 3 Jul 2018 - 08:28) *
The client is not obliged to send, it is the solicitor that is obliged to send as the solicitors should have all the documents in their possession before starting the case. It is the duty of the solicitor to send the docs. The solicitor is acting for the client.



so just remove all the "your client" and put "you?"
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
ostell
post Tue, 3 Jul 2018 - 09:03
Post #18


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 7,748
Joined: 8 Mar 2013
Member No.: 60,457



basically, yes
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Redivi
post Tue, 3 Jul 2018 - 09:10
Post #19


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 1,635
Joined: 31 Jan 2018
Member No.: 96,238



Unless you are in the habit of threatening legal action without inspecting your client's case, you should already have this information
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
emergencychimp
post Tue, 3 Jul 2018 - 09:57
Post #20


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 199
Joined: 7 Sep 2013
Member No.: 65,032



I don't get how they are allowed to operate like this. Have they ever sent a compliant LBC? I doubt it. Why doesn't the SRA do anything about them? SRA must be a total joke just like Gladstones.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post

2 Pages V   1 2 >
Reply to this topicStart new topic
1 User(s) are reading this topic (1 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members:

 



Advertisement

Advertise here!

RSS Lo-Fi Version Time is now: Thursday, 16th August 2018 - 17:35
Pepipoo uses cookies. You can find details of the cookies we use here along with links to information on how to manage them.
Please click the button to accept our cookies and hide this message. We’ll also assume that you’re happy to accept them if you continue to use the site.